Complex Sailplane Mixes: 5-modes, 4 & 6ch, ±VTail ±Flaperon

[ZeroPitch]

UPDATE v0.4:

• Speed mode camber adjustment moved to HOV PIT pot. Catch mode flaps adjust moved to HOV THR.
• Increased flaps to elevator compensation from -5% to -20%.
• Decreased snap-flaps to 15% of elevator.
• Default expo now 20% instead of 0%, AIL D/R sets 40% expo. Removed expo from throttle.
• Timer1 now reset in launch mode and counts up when not in launch mode (no longer on TRN switch).
• Trim set to FINE instead of EXPONENTIAL.
• PPM Centers fixed to be all 1500 (some were off).

UPDATE v0.3:

• Moved 'Catch' flight mode to separate experimental file & removed from stock file, freeing up a flight mode, switch, and pot.
• Reduced V-Tail mixing from 100% ELE & RUD to 75% ELE & RUD. NOTE: you might need to further reduce to between 50% and 65%, depending on model; just edit all four mixes on CH1 & CH2 and reduce the weights to get your desired control surface throw.
• Moved Snap Flap mix source from ELE to CH11 (elevator mix) and increased to 20%. Moved to CH14 (camber mix) on the Full House models.

Stock Sailplane Models v0.4.eepe

Companion9X v0.76 eeprom file for Open9X. 5-Flight Modes, v-tail, flaperon mixing.

(4.84 KiB) Downloaded 1196 times

Experimental Sailplane Models v0.4.eepe

EXPERIMENTAL CATCH MODE - Companion9X v0.76 eeprom file for Open9X. 5-Flight Modes, v-tail, flaperon mixing.

(4.84 KiB) Downloaded 854 times

Here is my take on a set of sailplane setups for Open9x on the Turnigy 9X (FlySky FS-TH9X).

My intent is to make a good base for all my current and future gliders, including full-house thermal-duration sailplanes, DLGs, slope, etc. both with and without flaperons and/or v-tail. To that extent, I've seperated control surface mixing from stick mixing, to allow easy removal or replacement of v-tail and flaperon/spoileron.

The attached eepe EEPROM file (for use with Companion9X) contains 4 different, but related, models: Full House (6-channel), Full House with V-Tail Mixing, Independent Ailerons (4-channel) with Flaperons, and Independent Ailerons with Flaperons and V-Tail mixing.

NOTE! SO FAR ONLY THE 4CH MODELS HAVE BEEN FLIGHT TESTED!

Please leave a comment if you check out either 6ch, so I can upate the above. I'd also love to hear general comments or recommendations for improvement, specifically with regards to channel assignment, knob and switch positions, and mixes.

FEATURES

• 5 Flight Modes: Launch, Catch (Experimental), Land, Speed, Float
• Independent Camber and Elevator trim for each flight mode, common Rudder and Aileron trim
• Full-span Camber adjustment on separate sliders for Speed and Float, disable via single switch
• Full-span Ailerons in Float & Speed mode (Flaps follow Ailerons) for Full House models
• Aileron and Flap differential
• Flaps/Spoilers on Throttle stick in Land mode
• Variable Crow when Trainer switch pulled in Land mode for Full House models
• Flaps/Spoilers (+Crow) on separate slider in Catch mode (rather than on Throttle)
• Snap flap (Elevator to Camber mix), disable via switch
• Flaps/Spoiler to Elevator compensation on a curve
• Aileron to Rudder mixing
• Timer 1 reset by Launch mode (and Exit button), counts up when not in Launch mode

STOCK MODELS

• Sail-FULL - Full-house sailplane (6-channel) with traditional tail
• Sail-FULV - Full-house sailplane (6-channel) with V-Tail mixing
• Sail-4F - Independent aileron servos (4-channel) with Flaperon/Spoiler mixing and traditional tail
• Sail-4FVT - Independent aileron servos (4-channel) with Flaperon/Spoiler and V-Tail mixing

EXPERIMENTAL 'CATCH PHASE' MODELS

• XSail-FULL - Full-house sailplane (6-channel) with traditional tail
• XSail-FULV - Full-house sailplane (6-channel) with V-Tail mixing
• XSail-4F - Independent aileron servos (4-channel) with Flaperon/Spoiler mixing and traditional tail
• XSail-4FVT - Independent aileron servos (4-channel) with Flaperon/Spoiler and V-Tail mixing

FLIGHT MODES (in priority order)

• Launch (FP1: THR CUT) - Recommend mod FP1 to !THR CUT and flip timer start/reset.
  Use for DLG launch by adjusting elevator trim to rotate-up right after release. Use on other gliders to adjust trim on tow, high-start, winch, etc. Adjust camber with throttle trim to top of airfoil for maximum L/D.
• Catch {EXPERIMENTAL} (FP2: RUD D/R) - enables flying from the left stick with reduced elevator & aileron D/R, to allow a DLG to be captured in the right hand for a quick turn-around launch. Adjust flaps/spoilers (100%) with HOV THR knob. Elevator & aileron also controlled by right-stick at 100%. Tx emits a continuous warning in this mode. Small delay switching to/from this mode.
• Land (FP3: F MODE 2) - flaps follow throttle 100% with small delay. Small delay switching to/from this mode.
• Crow (TRN) - Instant Crow-mix on Throttle stick in Land or Catch mode: ailerons jump opposite from flaps for high-drag. Cancels Flaps to Elevator compensation while Crow is active.
• Speed (FP4: F MODE 1) - Maximum L/D. Adjust flaps with throttle trim to be flush with top of airfoil. Hit ELE D/R switch to enable ±25° camber adjustment on HOV PIT knob.
• Float (FP0: F MODE N) - Minimum Sink (default flight mode). Adjust flaps with throttle trim to be flush with bottom of airfoil. Hit ELE D/R switch to enable ±25° camber adjustment on PIT TRIM knob.

OTHER

• Enable 40% D/R and Expo with AIL D/R switch. Default is 20% Expo.
• Enable Elevator to Camber mixing (snap flap) via GEAR switch.

CHANNEL ASSIGNMENTS

• CH1 - Rudder (Left Rudder for V-Tail)
• CH2 - Elevator (Right Rudder for V-Tail)
• CH3 - Left Aileron
• CH4 - Right Aileron
• CH5 - Left Flap (Full House models only)
• CH6 - Right Flap (Full House models only)

• CH10 - Rudder Mix
• CH11 - Elevator Mix
• CH12 - Flap Mix (Flap + Camber on 4-ch)
• CH13 - Aileron Mix
• CH14 - Camber Mix (Full House Only)

[/list]

2m Chandelle Aerobatic Sailplane

[ZeroPitch]

Put a flight on my Chandelle (picture above) over lunch today and everything works perfectly with the Independent Aileron + V-Tail setup.

The others were based on this one and bench checked the same way, so I have a lot of confidence they will work out-the-box.

Again, please let me know if you spot any issues or have recommendations for improvement in either the mixes or layout...

[bertrand35]

I think you know very well the FW now
Bertrand.

[Rob Thomson]

I will be trying it out tomorrow on my Aldij!

[ZeroPitch]

I will be trying it out tomorrow on my Aldij!

Excellent! That Aldij is a nice looking F3F ship.

How do you have it set up and which of my models are you using?

Looks like it uses a single servo to control one flap surface across the entire center section of the 3-piece wing. Unless you modified it to use 2 servos on that center section, you will need to change my Full House V-tail setup to eliminate Ailerons-to-Flaps mixing. Delete the "-100%CH13" mix on CH5 and delete all 3 mixes on CH6. Your single flap servo will then plug into CH5. This should give you full span camber, flap control, crow, etc., but the single flap won't try to follow one (or the other) aileron

Make sure to check all the features/flight modes... I don't have a full-house glider so those models were only bench checked...

Thanks for giving it a try, and let me know what you think!

- Jay

[ZeroPitch]

I think you know very well the FW now
Bertrand.

Thanks! Having a software engineering background helps a lot

[MikeB]

So you could join in with some code changes then

Mike.

[ZeroPitch]

So you could join in with some code changes then

Mike.

Hah. Then I'd be doing the edit/compile/test cycle instead of the fly/crash/rebuild cycle! Only got time for one or the other

Jay

[ZeroPitch]

V-Tail mixes seem a bit high... Both elevator and rudder are each moving the control surface 100%. I think the mixes on CH1 & CH2 (two inputs each) all need to be dialed down to between 80% to as low as 50% (keeping the + and - as appropriate). Will update the EEPROM file once I get this dialed in...

Jay

[ZeroPitch]

Snapflap should mix in ch11 not ele....

[ZeroPitch]

I will be trying it out tomorrow on my Aldij!

Hey Rob... ever get a chance to try out one of the templates on your Aldij? Have any feedback or need to make any adjustments?

Jay

[rct]

corrupt attachment, sorry but i cant get it to run and i would like to get my dynaflite supertalon running crow mixing on the 4 wing servos.
not sure how to set up crow myself so needed a bit of help.

[Rob Thomson]

I will be trying it out tomorrow on my Aldij!

Hey Rob... ever get a chance to try out one of the templates on your Aldij? Have any feedback or need to make any adjustments?

Jay

Only managed a 5 minute flight... Then the rain came!

Trying again tomorrow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ZeroPitch]

corrupt attachment, sorry but i cant get it to run and i would like to get my dynaflite supertalon running crow mixing on the 4 wing servos.
not sure how to set up crow myself so needed a bit of help.

Hmm... I just downloaded the attachment and compared one of the Full House models with the original and didn't find any differences. Not sure what's up with that. Are you running the latest Open9x (rev 766) and latest Companion9x (v0.75)? I'm running with the heli+audio+templates+potscroll+autoswitch options (but that shouldn't matter). Perhaps read the sticky thread on how to DL and use the eepe files in the Templates & Programming topic?

Hope you get this going!

Jay

[ZeroPitch]

UPDATE v0.3:

• Moved 'Catch' flight mode to separate experimental file & removed from stock file, freeing up a flight mode, switch, and pot.
• Reduced V-Tail mixing from 100% ELE & RUD to 75% ELE & RUD.
• Moved Snap Flap mix source from ELE to CH11 and increased to 20%.

[ZeroPitch]

Possible annoyance with having independent trims per flight mode & looking for suggestions...

After rebuilding a tail-feather on my Chandelle, took it to a park to get it dialed in again. Adjusted elevator using sub-trim to what felt about right, so as to keep my current per-flight phase trims. However, once I got it on the slope, I found that it was pretty far off and the sailplane wanted to dive. So, adjusted the float phase trim using the elevator trim tab. However, as soon as I switched to speed, noticed that the trim was pretty far off again. Got some altitude and adjusted to a good level. Phew. But wait, this also effected land mode... when the lift got light I had to make a mad scramble to adjust trim with the non-flying hand while at the same time get the plane setup for a landing...

Overall, per-flight-phase trims are not fun when they are way out!

Here are the ideas I've had to make this more pleasant:

• If I understand "instant trim" correctly, it will add all the current trim settings into sub-trim and zero out trim for the current flight mode. I could enable this on the mTRN switch and find some other way to start the timer1. Note that Companion9x does not appear to do what I just said, so maybe I don't understand what 'Instant Trim' does.
• Reconfigure the trim tabs and move to the opposite stick. In this example, swap elevator and throttle trim-tabs, so I can adjust without removing my hands. HOWEVER, Open9X does not appear to support this feature (yet).
• Do away with per-flight phase elevator trim. However... I *really* like this feature!

Looking for recommendations or suggestions on how to fix this up.

Thanks!

Jay

[jhsa]

I think the ideal would be having all 4 trims on the throttle side of the tx.. maybe when someone makes a new case design

[Kilrah]

If I understand "instant trim" correctly, it will add all the current trim settings into sub-trim and zero out trim for the current flight mode.

No, with "instant trim" you're supposed to hold your sticks so that the model flies straight, hit the instant trim function, and the current servo positions are stored in the trims.

You're confusing with "trims to offsets", which is at the bottom of the LIMITS screen, and that you'd use after the flight to transfer the trims into the offsets (subtrims) and rezero the trims.

Reconfigure the trim tabs and move to the opposite stick.

This will be possible in the next open9x release, Bertrand said due out today - can't wait

There could be a new function similar to "Instant Trim" which would be "Copy Trims". You take off, trim in the current flight phase, hit the "Copy Trims" button you assigned, and those trims are copied to all flight phases.

[ZeroPitch]

I think the ideal would be having all 4 trims on the throttle side of the tx.. maybe when someone makes a new case design

Nice idea for Mode 2, but not so hot for the Mode 1 guys Hoping that swapping the trim tabs is almost as good...

[ZeroPitch]

If I understand "instant trim" correctly, it will add all the current trim settings into sub-trim and zero out trim for the current flight mode.

No, with "instant trim" you're supposed to hold your sticks so that the model flies straight, hit the instant trim function, and the current servo positions are stored in the trims.

Just noticed that and was about to modify my post Looks like a handy feature for initial gross trimming, but not sure I'd use it after that. I tend to have a little cross-input in the sticks when I hold them off-center; not much, but enough that I'd likely be adjusting trims that I don't want to. EDIT: Also, looks like a very handy feature on the bench, but don't need it on a function... might be better just as a UI option like the "Trims to Offsets" you mention next...

You're confusing with "trims to offsets", which is at the bottom of the LIMITS screen, and that you'd use after the flight to transfer the trims into the offsets (subtrims) and rezero the trims.

Yup... had them confused. Best I can tell, though, "Trims to Offsets" isn't available as a function to put on a switch. Also, does not appear in Companion9X so didn't see it (can't fly today, so didn't bring my Tx to work).

Reconfigure the trim tabs and move to the opposite stick.

This will be possible in the next open9x release, Bertrand said due out today - can't wait

Oh yah! Very nice timing Is this a per-model setting or a global setting? I think the latter makes much more sense, but I can see arguments for the former. My vote would be a global setting to avoid confusing things if I import/export a model file.

There could be a new function similar to "Instant Trim" which would be "Copy Trims". You take off, trim in the current flight phase, hit the "Copy Trims" button you assigned, and those trims are copied to all flight phases.

That would also work, but would mean losing the trims in all flight modes. Copying/adding the trim to offsets (via a switch/function), though, could zero out the current flight mode trim, but keep any deltas that the other flight modes currently have; e.g., I've been putting in a little down elevator in speed mode, and want to have a lot of up elevator in launch mode so my DLG rotates up right after release. Wouldn't want to have to get those dialed in again every time I use the feature.

Jay

[Kilrah]

This will be possible in the next open9x release, Bertrand said due out today - can't wait

Oh yah! Very nice timing Is this a per-model setting or a global setting?

Per mixer actually. In each mixer you can define which trim should be used, if any. You could use the aileron trim for your gear switch if you felt like it
Trims will also be added to the source list, so an unused trim could be used as a control.

There could be a new function similar to "Instant Trim" which would be "Copy Trims". You take off, trim in the current flight phase, hit the "Copy Trims" button you assigned, and those trims are copied to all flight phases.

That would also work, but would mean losing the trims in all flight modes. Copying/adding the trim to offsets (via a switch/function), though, could zero out the current flight mode trim, but keep any deltas that the other flight modes currently have

That does sound good indeed!

[ZeroPitch]

This will be possible in the next open9x release, Bertrand said due out today - can't wait

Oh yah! Very nice timing Is this a per-model setting or a global setting?

Per mixer actually. In each mixer you can define which trim should be used, if any. You could use the aileron trim for your gear switch if you felt like it
Trims will also be added to the source list, so an unused trim could be used as a control.

Excellent! Still, having a global swap would make it easy to try out, or to switch everything over to this without impacting any existing/imported/exported models.

There could be a new function similar to "Instant Trim" which would be "Copy Trims". You take off, trim in the current flight phase, hit the "Copy Trims" button you assigned, and those trims are copied to all flight phases.

That would also work, but would mean losing the trims in all flight modes. Copying/adding the trim to offsets (via a switch/function), though, could zero out the current flight mode trim, but keep any deltas that the other flight modes currently have

That does sound good indeed!

Another nice feature to dovetail with that one would be to have a "Train switch held" switch, so this feature (or others) could be activated by pulling *and holding* the trainer switch. I won't need it often, so want it out of the way, but when I need it I *neeeeed* it, lol. Might also be useful for clearing the timer and possibly other things...

[ZeroPitch]

Put the maiden flight on my first DLG (a TopSky 1.0), and the conventional tail 4ch model (Sail-F) worked perfectly!

After reversing the servos and setting offset and limits, the only other change was to switch Trim Increment to "Fine" so I could better control camber adjustment with the throttle trim. After a few flights, needed to dial in the flaps-elevator compensation to something like 30% (second mix on CH11: -50%CH12 Curve(Curve 1)). After getting comfortable with the controls, I flipped the "Launch" phase from THR to !THR and added in some up elevator trim so the DLG would rotate up on launch, then I can hit the Throttle Hold switch to get to Float mode and a normal elevator trim.

First day fliying with a DLG and specked it out!

Jay

[ZeroPitch]

Looks like there might be a bug in either my 4ch flaperon mixes when using lots of servo offset, or maybe one of my servos isn't acting quite right

edit: this appears to be related to trim: everything works great if aileron trim is mostly center. I think trim needs to be moved from the AIL input onto on the channel output itself.

I cut the aileron links a bit too short on my TopSky DLG, so it needed a lot of servo offset and a lot of differential to hit the proper up and down aileron differential throw and still be able to drop flaps 45*. I noticed today that flaps are not deploying evenly on both sides, so I'm thinking the mixes may need adjustment. This is most noticeable when flaps are only partially down.

Everything works perfectly on my Chandelle which is using the v-tail version of the same setup, so I'm strongly suspecting it has to do with either offsets (Chandelle uses almost no offset), trim, or differential (Chandelle uses none).

I'll post an update when I get it sorted...

Jay

[nielsbusch]

I'm using the full sailplane mix on my radian pro. Works great, thanks. I had to do some reversing and minor adjustments for the flaps and thruttle.

[Kilrah]

I think your setup is falling into the category that recently caused about 2 weeks of discussion, and a new feature in open9x.

The problem that with er9x and the standard open9x behavior the limits are the same as the end points. So let's say you leave your limits at +/-100% for CH1, set a 100%AIL mix, and you set 50% offset on the limits screen. Now if you move your AIL stick towards the left end your servo will do 150% effective travel, while if you move the stick to the right the servo will only do 50% effective travel. Obviously a trim click will also cause 3 times more movement in one direction than in the other. This is perfectly fine and easy in the case where only one control has to act on a given servo as it will directly compensate your mechanical problem, but when you have to mix inputs (as in the flaperon case) it's pretty much impossible to match the movements.

This is what lead to the "symlimits" compilation option and setting in open9x, where changing offset does not modify the movement amplitudes, and keeps the movement amounts symmetric on both sides.

I think you could benefit from using it.

[skatun]

I have problem opening the templates, are anyone able to open them in the latest version of eepe?

[Kilrah]

eepe won't open them. As mentioned in the first post they are templates for open9x, so you should open them with companion9x (and use them with open9x only, you might have to review everything if trying to convert them for use with er9x as several glider features don't exist in er9x).

[skatun]

Wow, impressive work...
Is it possible to add a thermal phase as well? And add electric motor? I normally fly with the throttle on throttle stick if it is in throttle phase, this way it doesnt matter where you keep the throttle stick when you are flying as long as you are not in landing phase or in throttle phase. If you have a throttle phase it is not necessary with a launch phase and vice verse.

In the launch phase I normally have a switch to flip over which makes it go over to negative flap with a timer, at the bottom of the zoom i have kickflap and after the zoom when you start pushing down elevator the flap should go over to thermal setting.

How can i modify this nice setup to add these features?

Kim

[skatun]

I have a bit of problem understanding all the mixes,

so i would like to have id0 to be speed phase(-2.5deg flap and ailerons upaswell, ch3-6) change the trim of ch1, elevator
id1 normal mode
id2: float/thermic (5deg flap and 3deg ailerons down aswell, ch3-6) change the trim of ch1, elevator

if trn is on then ch7 should connected to throttle.

if gear is on then throttle stick should be used for crow, however with an electric f3b model i like to have brake only from midle of the stick and down and from +75-100% i have normal throttle, this way i can easily go around if realize i am coming in to low. So i should set gear switch for landing phase i guess.

then i have kick flap on ele switch, full elevator +15deg flap full down -2.5 deg flap
on rud i have ail coupled with rudder

But i have problem understanding how i can modify the code to do all this and get the trims to work properly