9xtreme logical switches to arm naze32 r6

[PAheliguy]

Hi guys,
Been playing with program, trying to learn the in's and out's.
Just got first quad and setting up the Naze32 r6. got her up and running, here are the stats....

9Xtreme board
FRYsky module crappy ppm original hobbyking 8ch receiver. (I know these suck and shouldn't be using it my only other option at moment is a AR6100e witch are no better.)

Ch 1-4 are 100% sticks.
ch5 3pos id0 -85 / id1 0 / id2 +100 (Im using this for 3 flight modes angle/hor/acro respectively)
ch6 100full !ele (I am using this as my arming switch )
ch7 100full !ail ( have this set on barometer at moment to see what it can do. I will change this when done playing.)
ch8 100full !thr ( I have this as my failsafe switch to kill the motors in emergency)


Ok, thats all fine, it works. but I'm not happy about it yet.
My issue or concern is that I want to set up the arming on the THR switch, and I can do that in Cleanflight easy enough, but I need to make the THR switch a "sticky" switch on the momentary trainer to arm I also want it to not arm when throttle is bumped up so I dont get a flyaway condition.

here is a taranis video explaining what I want to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv3VJ1jznw8
This video shows you how to set up a "sticky" arming switch on your Taranis. A "sticky" arming switch means that you hold the momentary switch for a half second or so to arm, but disarm instantly with a throw of the non-momentary switch. This means that you can't arm accidentally, but you can still instantly disarm if needed during a crash.

in the comments, some guys were giving suggestions for a 9x with OpenTX like this...
Szymon Syrek
L1 AND THR TRN
L2 a<x Thr -99
L3 AND L1 L2
L4 Glue L3 !THR

I tried converting with no real sucess
For l2, I need a replacement for a<x
For l4, I need a replacement for Glue.
I tried v<val and Latch, with no success. If there is also a way to get the 0.6 seconds to work that would be cool also. Maybe I can do that with the delay function???

Thanks for any help guys!
David.



Edit note:

For anyone looking for the solution to this mix, Mike offered up the solution in post #2.
The confusion was all mine when I tried to simulate this in eePSKye simulator. I did not hold the trainer for the correct time value in L1



To ARM:
Throttle cut switch needs to be in the inverse position (!THR) to start arming procedure, move the throttle cut switch to default position (THR). Either at the same time or after throttle cut switch is in default position, press and hold trainer switch for 0.6 seconds.
This will activate your arm chanel you set to L4.
It will not ARM unless your Throttle stick is -100% or full down position.

To DISARM:
Move Throttle cut switch to inverse position (!THR).

Logical switches:
L1 Ntme Off 0.6 On 6 AND TRN
L2 v<val Thr -99 AND !THR
L3 AND L1 L2
L4 Latch L3 THR

Use L4 as the source of the arming channel.
Example:
CHxx +100sL4
or
CHxx +100FULL Switch (L4)

Mike.

João and I were working out a different way that will still work. read further for details..

[MikeB]

L1 Ntme Off 0.6 On 6 AND TRN
L2 v<val Thr -99 AND !THR
L3 AND L1 L2
L4 Latch L3 THR
then use L4 as the source of the arming channel.

Mike.

[jhsa]

One possibility
Use a higher channel as an AUX channel, for example CH14 a set a delay to the 0.6 seconds you want

CH14 100% sTRN (Delay) up 0.6 : Down 0

The channel will go to 100% only 0.6 seconds after you hold the trainer switch.

Now you need 2 logical switches:

L1 v>val CH14 98 (This logical switch detects when CH14 is above 98%)

L2 Latch L1 TRN (and) !THR (This Latch switch will turn ON when L1 is ON, that means when you held the TRN switch for longer than 0.6 seconds, and will turn OFF immediately if you hit the TRN switch, But all this will only happen if the THR switch is in the OFF position. Otherwise the model will not arm.

Use L2 to switch your ARM/DISARM channel

João

EDIT: Mike, I found a behavior that I think it is not correct with the Latch switch??

For example:

L2 Latch L1 TRN (and) !THR

The Latch switch turns ON when L1 is ON, and that only happens if the THR switch is OFF..
If you turn the THR switch ON, the latch switch will turn OFF, which is correct. The problem is that if you turn the THR switch OFF again, the latch switch will turn ON immediately again without being triggered by L1. I think it should reset and need the first condition to be met again to be able to turn ON??

[Kilrah]

Normal, the and switch is "separate" from the logical switch itself and is only gating it.

[PAheliguy]

ok guys great suggestions, but I cant get either of them to work.

since I dont know log switches too well,(or at all) I can kinda get my head around Joao's idea of using ch14 to trainer delay.

tried them first on the radio, was missing the AND part on mikes examples, the ( and) helped me see what I was missing.

but now I am in the simulator, trying to get it to work.
first I am using ch6 as my arm switch

ch6 +100%sL2

I then set the L1 and L2 switches like stated
L1 v>val CH14 98
L2 Latch L1 TRN (AND switch) THR

simulated, ch6 will go from -100 to +100 with the thr switch with no regard to trainer.
trainer does delay, I can see that.

I will plug mikes into simulater to see if I have better luck.
do I have to activate something in general settings?
David.

[jhsa]

Normal, the and switch is "separate" from the logical switch itself and is only gating it.

Still, I don't think it is the correct behavior. It should reset the Latch switch in my opinion.

João

[jhsa]

ch6 +100%sL2

I then set the L1 and L2 switches like stated
L1 v>val CH14 98
L2 Latch L1 TRN (AND switch) THR

simulated, ch6 will go from -100 to +100 with the thr switch with no regard to trainer.
trainer does delay, I can see that.

You will need a mix in channel 14 as I explained above.
CH14 100% sTRN delay up 0.6 : down 0

or

CH14 100% FULL (Switch) TRN (delay) up 0.6 : down 0

For CH6 you can also try:

CH6 100% FULL (Switch) L2

João

[Kilrah]

The AND switch is a completely different layer, and has no right to go overwrite the upstream logic's state.

If you want that behavior you should put it into the condition itself (using a separate LS).

[jhsa]

That's the thing. Once triggered you can't reset the latch switch? Hmm unless... you provoke a "turn OFF" command using other logical switch(es)?
Don't have the radio with me at the moment, will check this idea in a while

João

[PAheliguy]

ch6 +100%sL2

I then set the L1 and L2 switches like stated
L1 v>val CH14 98
L2 Latch L1 TRN (AND switch) THR

simulated, ch6 will go from -100 to +100 with the thr switch with no regard to trainer.
trainer does delay, I can see that.

You will need a mix in channel 14 as I explained above.
CH14 100% sTRN delay up 0.6 : down 0

or

CH14 100% FULL (Switch) TRN (delay) up 0.6 : down 0

For CH6 you can also try:

CH6 100% FULL (Switch) L2

João

yes, forgot to add that here but it is on my eepskye template, and simulator works as described above with ch14 set.
also just tried changing ch6 as described, with no results

David.

[jhsa]

Ok, Try this(Just tested it in eepskye):

CH14 +100% sTRN Delay(u0.6:d0)

Logical Switches:


L1 CH14 > 98 !THR
L2 OR TRN THR
L3 Latch L1 L2

Then:

CH6 100% FULL (Switch) L3


Like this, the THR switch will force the Latch switch to OFF, resetting it.

For this to work, the THR switch must be in the OFF position. Only then the TRN switch will ARM the flight controller. It the THR switch or the TRN switch are turned ON when the board is armed, it will disarm it.
If the THR switch is turned OFF, the board will remain disarmed until you hold the TRN switch ON again for 0.6 seconds. Only then it will ARM..
Did you also want the Throttle stick to be at minimum before you can arm the controller?
João

[MikeB]

I checked my suggestion on both eepskye and on the radio, so it should work.

What revision of the firmware are you using?

For information, the LATCH function of a logical switch is a "Level triggered SET/RESET latch".
The first input is the SET input, the second is the RESET input. The SET input takes priority if both inputs are ON.
So, if both inputs are OFF, the logical switch keeps whatever value it has. If the SET input goes ON, the the latch goes ON. If the RESET input goes ON, then If the SET input is OFF, the latch goes OFF.

Mike.

[jhsa]

Same as above, but the Thr stick must also be at minimum, otherwise the flight controller won't arm.
It uses one more logical switch

CH14 +100% sTRN Delay(u0.6:d0)

Logical Switches:


L1 CH14 > 98 (and) !THR
L2 v<val Thr -98 (and) L1 (This checks that the throttle stick is down AND that L1 is ON)
L3 OR TRN THR
L4 Latch L2 L3

Then:

CH6 100% FULL (Switch) L4

João

[jhsa]

L1 Ntme Off 0.6 On 6 AND TRN
L2 v<val Thr -99 AND !THR
L3 AND L1 L2
L4 Latch L3 THR
then use L4 as the source of the arming channel.

Mike.

Mike, your example works, except that he wants the flight controller to be disarmed by a second flick of the TRN switch.. On your example you turn it OFF with the THR switch

Maybe:

L1 Ntme Off 0.6 On 6 AND TRN (In eepskye "Ntme" is "Ntimer")
L2 v<val Thr -99 AND !THR
L3 AND L1 L2
L4 OR TRN THR
L5 Latch L3 L4
then use L5 as the source of the arming channel.



João

[MikeB]

He does? I read "but disarm instantly with a throw of the non-momentary switch" in the first post, so NOT the TRN switch.

Mike.

[jhsa]

You are right, I misread that line, typical me
Anyway, there are a couple examples above.

By the way, with all this I found out that the model "Print" in eepskye is not showing things correctly in the logical switches. They are also called SWx instsad of Lx. And switch seems to be missing?
In the mixer the switch as source of the mix seems not to display correctly. It displays only the "s". The switch seems to be missing.
Might there be other problems that I didn't see.

João

[PAheliguy]

ersky9x-r218
9xt
8-1-16

well, I guess its good and bad that you guys are playing and finding stuff that needs looking at.
Didnt mean to cause work for you Mike.

Ok, I need to sit and play with these options and double check that I am not messing something up stupid in my programing and causing the error I am having pluging this in.

Under my hyperlink on first post, that was a copy of what Joshua was describing.
I can go either way with what switch disarms it, either thr or trn. I am used to Thr as my emergency cut off in my micro heli stuff. I use it quite often as to not hurt the Ncpx and Mcpx. and use it for all my models. I keep my finger on it so I dont fumble around.

My Main reason for this is safety, this keeps both hands off the quad when arming!
I have it set for an idle up at arm, so the props spin at arm currently.
I dont know why this hasnt been done more often and isnt common practice.
Guess I'm just a sissy.

now that I put the old lady to bed, I will play for a bit to see what I can do. (or how bad I can mess it up:) )
{turns down P3, quietly flips on switch}
Thanks,
David.

[PAheliguy]

Same as above, but the Thr stick must also be at minimum, otherwise the flight controller won't arm.

CH6 100% FULL (Switch) L4
CH14 +100% sTRN Delay(u0.6:d0)

L1 CH14 > 98 (and) !THR
L2 v<val Thr -98 (and) L1 (This checks that the throttle stick is down AND that L1 is ON)
L3 OR TRN THR
L4 Latch L2 L3

João

Made some progress!
I started with the above, but needed to make some changes..

CH6 100% FULL (Switch) L4
CH14 +100% sTRN Delay(u0.6:d0)

L1 v>val CH14 -98 (and) !THR
L2 v<val Thr -98 (and) L1
L3 OR TRN THR
L4 Latch L2 L3

I had to change L1 to v>val and set the value neg to -98 with it being pos, it didn't give the correct throttle at -100 position.
this got my switces to work! w00T!
I love the safety of -100 throttle position! thanks for adding that.

Great!, but my Throttle cut needs to be reversed for it to work as I am trained to.
So I changed L1 and L2 to have opposite THR and !THR
But, this causes a situation, when the TX is turned on, I get switch warnings, ( I need that so I don't do something silly) this puts the throttle cut switch in THR. the fail here is that all that needs to happen is that the trainer needs to be hit and it is armed. ugh. this is not good

So what happened here is that I trained myself the wrong way when learning to fly. all my other models have a throttle cut when !THR
I either have to retrain myself and change my other models so I am doing it correctly, or... do like I did and change THR to RUD.

So this is my current setup for LS

L1 v>val CH14 -98 (and) RUD
L2 v<val Thr -98 (and) L1
L3 OR TRN !RUD
L4 Latch L2 L3

This works and should be passed on as a proper safety feacher!

So I tried to get tricky...

CH6 100% FULL (Switch) L4
* 100% FULL (Switch) !THR

Thats for when I forget my new training and try and hit the wrong disarm switch and hit !THR .
Only problem with this is it need to reset my RUD switch before I switch back my Throttle switch or I am armed again.
Now, I can probably set myself a 1-2 sec delay on this to help a bit, but any longer than that creates another situation. maybe I should delete this or figure another LS to prevent rearming.

All this is helping me learn the logic switches! Im starting to have a bit of a clue.

then 5 min later I forget.

thanks guys!
David.

I should explore Mikes solution, so I can try and understand that one. this one was easier to get my head around first.

[jhsa]

I would try Mike's option. Mine uses a second flick of the TRN switch to also disarm the model. I thought that was what you wanted but I have misread your post.
The other difference between Mikes example and mine is that mine uses an AUX channel, and Mike's use the Ntimer in the logical switches.

I also found strange that you wanted the motors to be OFF at THR and not !THR.
I use the throttle cut set at !THR on all my models.
You should use whatever you are used to. Don't change all your models because of this one. Change this one's setting instead.

You are right. Our safety, and specially the safety of other people around us should be of major concern, when flying a model. Even a little foamie.

João

[MikeB]

You set you default switch positions in Model Setup|General. Highlight the line showing all the switches, set the switches to the default position you need for the model, then press MENU.

I use the THR switch as my throttle safety, towards the front is safe, if it is going to get knocked accidently I feel it is most likely toget knocked to this (safe) position.

Mike.

[jhsa]

The wondeful thing is that you can decide where you want the model to be safe
Many other systems don't allow this.

João

[PAheliguy]

I failed my exam. lol
Did my first bench test on live model ( no props! ) switches didn't act as expected.
I am 100% sure this is operator error.
I will double check my default setting like suggested by Mike
(I have also yet to try Mike's example need to try and learn that.)

I use the THR switch as my throttle safety, towards the front is safe, if it is going to get knocked accidently I feel it is most likely toget knocked to this (safe) position.

Mike.

I also found strange that you wanted the motors to be OFF at THR and not !THR.
I use the throttle cut set at !THR on all my models.

João

This is exactly what I wanted to do, all my other models have throttle cut as !THR
I was trying to do the same, and I'm sure I just wasn't properly explaining what I was trying to do.

I was running into an issue in simulation when turning on Tx "switch warning, return switches to their default position".
In order to get no voice alarm, I place throttle cut to THR.
THR was also my ARM position in cleanflight. to DISARM throttle cut was in !THR.
cleanflight AUX2 = Tx CH6 100full !THR

The current version cleanflight (1.13.0 )(I think this is the right number to post) is smart enough to not automatically ARM on plugging in battery, so I need to cycle throttle cut switch (defalt THR to !THR and back to THR to ARM).

What I was trying to do Is create a secondary switch that needs to be hit on the trainer momentary so that cleanflight will only see THR when !TRN is pressed once.

procedure I want:
Turn Tx on, all switches in default position. Plug in Battery on model wait for Naze32 to boot, beep beep beep.. set Tx to !THR (dis-arm mode). use both THR and !TRN (throttle position at -100) to ARM Naze32. This way I can throw Throttle cut switch will not arm unless trainer is pressed and throttle is full off! I have Clean flight set to give minimal throttle of 1100 at arm, so I need this to be safe.

I tried to outsmart myself by going to RUD to arm, but I am going to abandon that and go back to working this out on THR.
I am going to try and work my pea-brain threw this so I can pass my exam and make you all proud. lol.

thanks,
David.

[PAheliguy]

L1 Ntme Off 0.6 On 6 AND TRN
L2 v<val Thr -99 AND !THR
L3 AND L1 L2
L4 Latch L3 THR
then use L4 as the source of the arming channel.

Mike.

I now know why I couldn't get this to work on simulator.
Cant click !TRN and THR at same time in eePskye simulator. duah.

Mike is the man, João's Model was just easier for me to understand.

For information, the LATCH function of a logical switch is a "Level triggered SET/RESET latch".
The first input is the SET input, the second is the RESET input. The SET input takes priority if both inputs are ON.
So, if both inputs are OFF, the logical switch keeps whatever value it has. If the SET input goes ON, the the latch goes ON. If the RESET input goes ON, then If the SET input is OFF, the latch goes OFF.

Mike.

Reading this 10 times, it finally got threw to me.
I also messed up and put TRN in L4 instead of THR. This set the reset position of the latch to the trainer switch and was trying to figure out why the trainer was my disarm. lol At least that mistake had me lean how this is working and that I had trainer as the reset.


On a side note,
Is there any advantage/disadvantage to either of these as my ARM CH?
CH6 100% FULL (Switch) L4
CH6 100%sL4

[jhsa]

They both should work.

Well at least now you have learnt how to work with logical switches

João

[jhsa]

Let me try to explain the difference

CH6 100% FULL (Switch) L4

FULL is the source and it assumes the value of the weight (in this case 100%) when the MIX is ON, or - weight when the MIX is OFF. That would be -100%
If the weight was set to 80%, the channel value would be 80 when the switch (MIX) is ON, and -80 when the switch (MIX) is OFF. The switch in this case just turns the mix ON or OFF.
If you had a stick as source, say Thr, and configure the switch as below
CH3 100% Thr switch (RUD)

Then when the switch is ON, the mix is ON and the channel will assume the value of the source, which is the throttle stick. If you turn the switch OFF, the mix will be disabled, and the channel will be set to 0% (middle), and not respond to the throttle stick anymore. Just like empty mixes are set to 0% (centered). They have no source so they are turned OFF.

CH6 100%sL4

Here the switch sL4 is used as the source of the mix itself. That means that the mix will assume the logical switche's value. In this case it toggles between the weight and - weight values. No need for configuring another switch in the switch field of the mix.
I hope this helped you understand how the source of a mix works.

João

[PAheliguy]

They both should work.

Well at least now you have learnt how to work with logical switches

João

João, I didnt mean to insinuate that your didn't work.
Just that I was unclear as to what I wanted to achive.
Also to clarify that Mike's original suggestion worked, but I was unable to test in eePskye simulator.
(unless you know of a way to click both buttons in sim.)
You have shown great patience with me learning Ersky9x program. It is much appreciated.

I was able to attach voice to the switches also. Couldn't of done that if I hadnt watched your video's so, thank you!
I need voice files that say; Arm, Disarm, Horizon mode, Angle mode, ect. more "Quad" oriented. I only have the Basic files downloaded to card, so I will have to learn up on creating voice files, or finding them.
I get a kick out of the voice. My old lady thinks I have a new girlfriend.

As per the Mixes, watched those video's a few times, so get some of the basics.
I get that there are multiple ways of getting tasks done on here, and both of these examples work
CH6 100% FULL (Switch) L4
CH6 100%sL4
in the second, L.Switch 4 is used as the source of the mix.
Just out of curiosity, can we still use the Weight/Offset/Curve, ect to manipulate or override this source? I would assume so.
Is all this stuff in the er9x manual and still relevant?

Thanks,
David.

[jhsa]

João, I didnt mean to insinuate that your didn't work.

No, no, I didn't think that.. I know that mine works, just not the way you wanted

I was the first to say that you should use Mike's example as I misunderstood what you wanted to do. But my example could be used as a learning experience. Some others might want to use it that way. As you said, there are a few ways of achieving the same results in ErSky9x.

I get a kick out of the voice. My old lady thinks I have a new girlfriend.

Ha ha, When I first added voice to my radios (again thanks to Mike) My wife thought I was chatting with other women on the computer.. Nearly got my back side kicked because of that

in the second, L.Switch 4 is used as the source of the mix.
Just out of curiosity, can we still use the Weight/Offset/Curve, ect to manipulate or override this source? I would assume so.

Yes you can. And if the mix is the only one in the channel, you can also use the "Limits" and SubTrim to change the end points and the centering. For example, a 3 position switch as source.

CH5 100% sIDx

Now go to the "Limits" menu and play with the min and max values, as well as the sub-trim. You will find out you can fine tune both end positions of the switch, as well as the position of the mix when you set the switch to the center position..
You can also use a curve, of course.

Is all this stuff in the er9x manual and still relevant?

Yes, this should be in the manual and it also applies to Ersky9x. They are basically the same, only Ersky9x has more features.. The basics are the same..

As for voice, please check this.. Now anyone can easily generate a voice pack

https://github.com/CaffeineAU/TTSAutoma ... ag/2.8.1.2

some instructions here:

https://github.com/CaffeineAU/TTSAutomate

I believe that in the installation folder there is already a "phrase file" to generate all the basic voice files. You just need to add the extra ones you need, select an output folder, select a sexy voice , and generate the files..

Have fun

João

[PAheliguy]

I believe that in the installation folder there is already a "phrase file" to generate all the basic voice files. You just need to add the extra ones you need, select an output folder, select a sexy voice , and generate the files.

^^^
Ha! you sound so feminine! lol

Pasted that into tts, this is fun.
new toy to learn.

Thanks,
David.

[MikeB]

Also to clarify that Mike's original suggestion worked, but I was unable to test in eePskye simulator.
(unless you know of a way to click both buttons in sim.)

Well I tested it on eepskye OK. The THR 'button' changes colour to show if it is ON or OFF and toggles between these states when you click it. The TRN button also changes colour, but is only ON while you click and hold on it, so i smomentary as is the real switch.

Mike.

[PAheliguy]

yes, But I could not get my CH6 to move from -100 to +100 in simulator


OK, I wasn't holding my trainer for long enough in the sim
my fault.


Yea, I think I want to see if I can play with that and change it to both !TRN and THR simultaneously.


Thanks.
David.