Guided model configuration

[mwm]

The question "DX6i or 9x" seems to show up on other forums with some regularity. The only reason I can see for recommending the DX6i is that setting up a 9x is much more complicated than a DX6i. After all, you can set up a plane on the DX6i by selecting the "acro" type, and get something that's mostly workable. Templates help with that some, but they (like everything else) are used for other things as well, so it's not really obvious how to use them.

While a 9x setup can never be as simple as the DX6i - they have the advantage of knowing what transmitter they're using and the correct channel assignments - that can be offset by having a computer to run a "guided model configuration" on.

I'm thinking of a new menu entry - possible on the popup on a model in an eeprom file - labelled "Guided configuration". That takes you through a series of dialogs:

1) Model type: Airplane/helicopter/glider/ <whatever else someone wants to contribute>
2) Model configuration: depends on the model type. I'm a heli guy, so I'd expect to see fixed pitch (inc. coax), 90, 120 and 140 degree CCPM.
3) Control options: Again, depends on model type. For helis, this would be things like 3d flight mode and gyro gain. I expect planes might have flaps, spoilers, etc. Some things would be there for all models, like landing gear, throttle hold, dual rates & timers. They should have the ability to assign them to different switches, probably defaulting to the appropriately labelled switch.
4) Channel assignment: this would be checkboxes for the common configuration (JR/Spektrum for the DSM2 crowd, turnigy stock, etc.) along with "Other" which listed the channels required for the configuration, along with pulldowns to assign them to numeric channels.

When that last one is finished, it would write out a model configured appropriately for the choices made. Sure, it will probably never be all things to all people, but it would make it easy for people new to programmable transmitters to get a sane configuration. No, it won't help if they're computer-phobic, but in that case, they probably aren't going to be flashing custom firmware anyway.

So, is this crazy? Does anyone else think this might be a nice feature request?

[Romolo]

We have templates...
just suggest someone to be added in c9x...
and they will be there next release...

[mwm]

Templates are great tools if you already know what you're doing. They can do everything I described, if the user can find them, and figure out what they're for, and how to use them properly. The problem is, there's nothing in the software pointing at templates and saying "start here", or describing how to use them, or what needs to be set to make them work properly.

This feature is intended to make the firmware usable by people who don't already know what they're doing. Who've maybe flown an RTF model with a game controller, and are looking at a Tx to provide better control of it, and to use with their second and future models. The point of the dialogs would basically be to pick out the right templates, set things up for them properly, and maybe apply a set of tweaks to the switches. Having a final "Do it!" dialog that lists which templates got used, etc. would help people learn how to use the templates.

[cre8tiveleo]

That's too funny, I had this same discussion with someone yesterday.

Have 'modes' when you first boot the radio after the install, it goes into auto config. First calibrate the sticks , then checks for model data, no data, then run a model config.
Asks would you like a basic config, or advanced If you choose advanced, it then jsut goes to the main screen and you input everything. If you choose basic, it asks, would you like to config a model? yes, then it goes and asks, acro, heli, glider, quad... and goes from there.

It would suit the ersky board, due to the memory required. but a similar setup dialog could be made for companion 9x or eepe. setup a basic model (yes we have templates, but a newb user will get lost) make it intuitive.

[Kilrah]

I agree. We have templates, but they're static and will always have to be modified by the user - who usually won't be able to do it. If someone needs to apply the "Simple 4-channel" template, he'll never know what to do to add flap control. IMO the moment you understand a template enough to adapt it to your setup, you don't need it altogether anymore...

A "model setup wizard" in C9X as described would be awesome indeed Sounds like a lot of work and maintenance though...

[Romolo]

and what about progressive templates
like:
2 servos ailerons
1 servo flap or 2 servos flap
2 servo elevon
which add something to the basic simple 4 channel programming
but in my opinion who get a plane with more than 3 servos, should at least learn how to program a radio and to know what is doing.

[mwm]

+Romolo: do you mean servos or channels for the first part? A simple four channel trainer will have four servos (two aileron servos on a single channel with a Y cable), and you can buy those RTF with a non-programmable radio. If someone is using more than that then I agree with you - but they aren't in the target market.
+cre8tiveleo: that parallels my own thought process.

I'm moving in about a week, so can't do much about code until then. On the other hand, the startup i was working for just folded, so I may have spare time after that. Assuming no one provides a good reason not to do this.

Like I said, the primary goal is to make setting up simple aircraft for beginners easy. "Simple" in this case means "an aircraft intended to be a step up from an RTF trainer." The secondary goal is to *not* get in the way of people who know what they're doing.

[Romolo]

For a very simple RTF, simple 4 channel template is sufficient...
Do you mean we need to prepare a picture telling people how to connect cables on the receiver ?
Preparing such a wizard, in a professional way will be highly time consuming, instead if done the simple way (some pictures) it will be rather useless.
I will be very happy if someone wants to start helping coding.

[jhsa]

IMO is very difficult to make such a guide also because not everybody uses the same channel order..

[cre8tiveleo]

See, most everyone here is way above the beginner level and 99% of the time we think it's so easy. you have to remeber that new flyers no nothing, or very little, and a basic setup wizard would be a godsend to those who need a little guidance. Even if it's one just to pick a template. It would make a world of difference.
This is the issue with the advanced firmware. They are fine and dandy, but very overwhelming for any new user.
We don't need pictures, although I am designing some 3d graphics of diffent aro setups to show the different control surfaces. (just some things I am playing around with)
Maybe development of Custom9x interface. One where it is a wizard only that creates a model file, intetractive tutorial.. hmmmm...

I'll post my model images once I complete the sequences.

IMO making a guide isn't that difficult. I wrote and translated manuals from German to English and had to conjour up tutorial videos for it all.. see, if one hasn't doen anything liek it before, they think it's difficult, if one has done it, it's a piece of cake.

[jhsa]

I agree. I just said it is not easy. Long ago I purposed a simulator with moving control surfaces for eepe/companion where people could see the surfaces moving with the sticks and see what every mix was doing..
But been told that it was very difficult (and I do believe it is) to make due to all different types of aircraft.. It would be like building a simulator.. But it would be a nice and helpful enhancement for everyone..

Joäo

[cre8tiveleo]

That's a little different. (way different and complicated, not difficult) Simple basic control layouts, and it's done.

That's where you use rc desktop pilot and your radio to test your mixes with your aircraft.

[Romolo]

Ok, guys I bought the idea:
so for fixed wings I'm almost ok..
i need helis, and in particular the cyclic plate...
images 400x400 px of a helis highlighting plates and rudder servo.

[Romolo]

when we are speaking of a model config wizard, are we speaking of something like this ???

[Rob Thomson]

That looks sweet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mwm]

Romolo, are you working on something like that? I had pictured something a little bit simpler (changing dialogues as you pick things), but I'm a notoriously bad UI designer.

[Romolo]

I have already done interface for normal airplanes and helis, still missing delta wings and gliders..
Have a look to the code
It's already in c9x svn

To test it go in templates and double click Use model config wizard

From a programming point of view is a dirty trick, I'm using two images 400x200
one is the wings/swash plate
the other is tail/gyro

[mwm]

Nice work. Much more usable than what I had in mind.
Couple of tweaks I think would help (sorry if these are already on your todo list):

1) The channel style selector should probably be on all craft.
2) A JR/Spektrum channel style (T A E R) for people using DSM modules to fly their micros.
3) Make the 90 degree swash plate label "90/Fixed/Coax" (while we may all know that, it might not be clear to someone who's not dealt with such before, given Blade's "Just use acro mode" for those 'copters).
4) Maybe an option to add throttle cut/hold (the templates are there)?
5) An option to name the template(s) being used?

Thanks again!

[Romolo]

Nice work. Much more usable than what I had in mind.
Couple of tweaks I think would help (sorry if these are already on your todo list):

1) The channel style selector should probably be on all craft.
2) A JR/Spektrum channel style (T A E R) for people using DSM modules to fly their micros.
3) Make the 90 degree swash plate label "90/Fixed/Coax" (while we may all know that, it might not be clear to someone who's not dealt with such before, given Blade's "Just use acro mode" for those 'copters).
4) Maybe an option to add throttle cut/hold (the templates are there)?
5) An option to name the template(s) being used?

Thanks again!

1) apart helis better to take the one set in radio general settings. Other ways why to have it there ?
2) see point 1 (but i do not know nothing about dsm2 micro helis (an help would be nice)
3) I do not know nothing about "blenders" an help is indeed needed
4) it's a good idea, even if you can add it later using templates
5) rather useless as you will call the wizard from an existing model (already named) or you mean to give the user the possibility to save as a template ??

[Romolo]

Glider interface done:

Ok now only delta wings are missing

[jhsa]

Do you already have a V-Tail configuration, for gliders and non gliders?? I can see you have it for gliders..
Good job by the way.. 5 stars..

João

EDIT: also a glider with motor..

[Romolo]

vtail is for gliders and non gliders, and also split elevator.

glider with motor can be done with normal airplane... let's keep it simple..

[jhsa]

only asking but it seems that you already thought of everything..

[mwm]

1) apart helis better to take the one set in radio general settings. Other ways why to have it there ?

Ok, I'll bite - using the persona of someone who's only flown RTF, and only realizes that you *can* change the control<->channel mapping when I think about it, what is it there for?

My goal was to have a single tool to get a functional config for most simple aircraft (and you've done far more than I would have been capable of there!). If I have to go somewhere else in order to get the mixes on the right channel, then it isn't that single tool. That's also why I asked about throttle cut - I don't consider a config without one to be properly functional. Having to go to templates in a tool written because templates were a bit complicated for the target audience seems self-defeating. But you can fly without the throttle cut, so that one isn't quite as important.

The sub-micro all-in-one recevier/esc/etc. boards are really problematical here. The channel order on those is - at least partially - literally wired in. In particular, the DSM2 boards are that way, so the transmitter pretty much has to be able to map controls - for both aircraft and heli's - to the spektrum order of Thr Ale Ele Rud. Since the software supports using DSM2 modules, I figure we ought to support configuring the popular beginner and not-so-beginner aircraft that lets the transmitter control.

For #5, I worded things really badly. What I was asking for is to display the name(s) of the templates that the config will be applying to the model (I'm assuming that that's what it does internally). That should help users learn how to use the templates so they can deal with more complex things.

[Romolo]

Here is delta wings

I added also receiver channel assignment in the wizard, channels' label will be colored in the appropriate one accordingly to model schema.
If you think the four schema are complete I will start working on creating mixes.

@mwm there will be no existing template applied, but i was thinking about allowing people to save their own from the wizard.

[gohsthb]

That's really neat! Unfortunately jhsa will probably start naggging to get that added in the sky9x firmwares!

I think a lot of people will really find this helpful when setting up a new model. Good job!
-Gohst

[bertrand35]

I see the big commits coming hour after hour. I will say that such a big feature is indeed hard work, thanks Romolo!
Bertrand.

[jhsa]

That's really neat! Unfortunately jhsa will probably start naggging to get that added in the sky9x firmwares!

I think a lot of people will really find this helpful when setting up a new model. Good job!
-Gohst

Gohst you couldn't be closer to the truth..

Romulo, could we steal it and use it in eepe?

Mike, The man said YES

Joäo (The Fortuguese Nagger)

[Romolo]

Obviously... yes
The code is opensource, it's not stealing is reusing.
But maybe let me finish it before.

[jhsa]

Ok, thanks..

Mike, the man said that we can reuse it..

P.S. - Yes, I'm nagging, Gohst's fault..