ERSKY9X development rationale and objective comparisons

[pldb64]

Hi All,

I believe i've now read through every post under the ERSKY9X forum and although there is a ton of detailed information there (and obviously those contributing have an understanding of the overall project direction), as a new comer, i've been finding it really hard to get my head around the "WHY" aspects of the new hardware. As in - why did people start developing this new board? what limitations did they run into that made it worthwhile?

Personally i've put the FrSky DIY kit into my 9x along with the smartieparts board so i've got ER9x with FrSky modules. I've NOT made the h/w mods to the stock PCBs to allow the telemetery to be incorporated into the FW (at least not yet). Nothing startling to that point!

What i'm interested in understanding is what's the bigger picture with the h/w board being discussed in ERSKY9X. I am inferring that if i install this board, the finicky h/w mods to the stock PCB are no longer required. I also understand that the USB port is on the new main board. I also understand that when i couple this with an 8ohm speaker i'll be able to have all sorts of audible warnings. I'm assuming if i were to choose this path, i'd still need to buy the FrSky DIY module. Thats some of the nuts and bolts.

Clearly the proposed board is more powerful than the stock board and so will support more complicated mixes etc, but is someone able to provide a mini roadmap that outlines what sorts of things you'd have to be interesed in doing to make the transition to this new board necessary or worthwhile?

I'd also like to see an objective assessment of what Gruvin9x v4.1 offers and how the two new boards compare. Why would you choose one over the other?

The way i'm looking at the sums it looks like this:
FrSky enabled 9x
- stock radio = $40
- FrSky module = $25
- smartieparts brd = $45
total = $110

ERSKY9x
- stock radio = $40
- FrSky module = $25
- ERSKY9x brd = $85
total = $150

So if the simplest answer is for the extra $40 you get the ability to include all the FrSky telemetery mods done for you plus a whole heap more power for complex mixes - that i can understand

I've seen the discusson on the hardware/Mods/FrSky Telemetery mods forum and it appears to be missing that step that explains the rationale as to what you get as a user by making the next mod. At least for this simple mind

Hopefully i haven't missed some previous post that explains all of this.

Thanks to everyone who's posted to the forum thus far - its proving riverting reading and most valuable.

Thanks
Peter

[Rob Thomson]

You pretty much have the 'cost economics' worked out

What you have forgotten is that the new board is ALLOT more powerful. Both in storage space, expansion capability and cpu speed.

It is a bit like saying... at the moment I have a 286PC. Wow... changed the board and it is a XEON 686!!

[pmackenzie]

Should allow for better sound, timer countdowns for example. (Al least I hope with all that audio stuff we get more than just beeps )
More storage , which will allow for more models and also some complexities that can't be added to ER9X due to storage limitations (named flight modes and comments in the mixers for example)
SD card support

Pat MacKenzie

[MikeB]

The stock board is very tight on storage, flash for the firmware, RAM for general data storage, and EEPROM for settings and model storage, particularly for the FrSky telemetry version. I have spent a lot of time optimising the existing code to make it use less of all of these. If we had twice as much of each, I probably wouldn't have had to bother at all. The processor also has a lot to do, so could usefully be faster.
All sorts of features are asked for, but they can't all just be added in. We already have several different builds to allow for different features.

The starting point was therefore first more memory, so we considered ATMEAG2560, then XMEGA devices, but as these were not faster we opted for the ARM processor, it also has on chip USB and ROM bootloader.
After that, all sorts of hardware has been added, some for future proofing, to avoid the necessity of doing mods to a board to add facilities. Hopefully we will only need to have a single version of the firmware, just turn on the facilities you actually require.
Also, its interesting to do all this!

I haven't looked closely at the Gruvin board so cannot really give an objective view. I believe it uses an ATMEAG2560, so the code and compiler is compatible with existing firmware, we will be a bit longer getting the ARM board fully running as the code to drive the hardware has to be re-written, although I have most of this done.

Mike.

[SkyNorth]

The way i'm looking at the sums it looks like this:
FrSky enabled 9x
- stock radio = $40
- FrSky module = $25
- smartieparts brd = $45
total = $110

ERSKY9x
- stock radio = $40
- FrSky module = $25
- ERSKY9x brd = $85
total = $150

So if the simplest answer is for the extra $40 you get the ability to include all the FrSky telemetery mods done for you plus a whole heap more power for complex mixes - that i can understand
---------/

Well, Lets take a look at things....

You get a new Gold plated ARM based main board , with USB port , and 3 serial ports , Micro SD Card socket , Audio amp output and volume control,with speaker and headphone outputs, 4mb model storage for 100's or 1000's of models , A second AVR micro for Rotary encoders, more switches , extra analog inputs. There are connectors for a dimmable LED backlight , and Haptic buzzer , extra inputs There is also a spot for a Bluetooth module.

Now, If you go the other route , what you you have for $110 ?
Stock main board , with no expansion capabilities , stock buzzer , 16 model memory?
programmer board , that sits dead (except for backlight driver) most of the time.
No extra memory , you still have the stock 64K.

The bottom line is, the Stock 9x is OUT of memory space. Where in the $110 spent , have you fixed this?
All you have is the same old radio , with a new programmer board.....that's it.

At some point in the future , the ERSKY software , will out grow its' 8 bit version , and want to unleash its 32 bit horsepower.

-Brent

[wallaguest1]

also i guess the bluetooth module will allow to connect two radios for training but wireless!
i hope the firmware update could be done wireless too, just a 2$ mini bluetooth usb module from dealextreme and you don't even need to drill the radio for the usb connector.
Just think about your android mobile phone connected with BlueTooth to the radio showing the plane position in a map or just as a ground station with lot of data on it.
Or if you have the new Ardupilot Mega 2, maybe we could even send from the phone new waypoints where the plane must go, no need for a heavy laptop!
or even recording the GPS position each second in the microSD card ready to be open with googleearth.
have audible sounds in the microSD for a voice that tells you the voltage, altitud, etc... of the plane without looking the radio...
A better screen with a quicker time response and contrast, dimmable backlight, accurate mAh consumption of the battery, reverse voltage protection, 3.3v micro instead of 5v... endless number of channels for very complex mixes (up to 2000 ch as far as erazz told me)

[B12]

Now, If you go the other route , what you you have for $110 ?

You can substract $36. There is no absolute need for a smartieparts board. $4 ebay usb programmer + $5 HK backlight does the same thing.

[Flaps 30]

The one big thing that is putting me off going this way in future, is the mechanical aspects concerning the case which will required extra holes and fixings for all the new things that this board offers. Maybe when someone can come up with a new case with all the bits/holes done I might consider going this route.

Maybe this could be made into a business or some form of partnership to sell complete ssytems based around this new board.

[SkyNorth]

You dont have to drill any holes if you dont want to.
The board mounts without drilling any holes.
There are internal connectors so that the external connections can be re-routed to your own jacks and location of your choice.

-Brent

[Reacher10]

I think what he's saying is more along the lines of adding more switches and whatever else can be added.

I think the real power of this is that it's open source firmware. A lot of the glider guys really put er9x to the test.

This board will open doors that can't even be realised yet...I mean whoa...you select your p-51 from the menu and the radio says"P-51 selected". You hit your flap switch and it says "Flaps deployed"...it goes on and on. The model match alone will be wild..."Model signal not found".

You could set your trainer switch up to give you an audio of your switch assignments and tell you where they should be for that particular plane before you power the plane on.

My mind is racing as to what this board will do...I'll have a splash screen that reads your radio sucks and have it say out loud your radio sucks!

For the all up cost, nothing...I mean nothing even comes close.

OH...The cool factor is off the charts...I mean who doesn't like cool!

I've drilled so many holes in my radio already that this will be a cake walk.

============================

If I hit that save draft button one more time I'm gonna sheet!

[cre8tiveleo]

You dont have to add switches, bt!

Just use a smartphone, blue tooth, and BAZINGA! Limitless!

Even have the radio send a model number via bt and you see the model on your device... BAZINGA! Limitless!

[Flaps 30]

I think what he's saying is more along the lines of adding more switches and whatever else can be added.

Close... Apart from the fact that she is not that keen on making slots and holes in the original case, as I have limited facilities to do mechanical stuff, and invariably it ends up as some sort of bodge job.

This also raises the case (no pun intended) that at some point production is likely to cease for whatever reason of the units we buy to modify. Hence why I thought that it may be time to come up with some sort of plan for the future.

[Reacher10]

Opps...just noticed your picture...sorry bout that.

To be honest...a cheap dremel tool is indispensable in this hobby and
well worth having. Using it requires some skill which can only be gained by using it.
Practice using it on something else before you start cutting into your radio.

A drill is easy to use and can be used for pretty much any opening required.

Erazz and I were discussing the radio one day and I brought up this very topic
that "Wouldn't it suck if they stopped making this radio". We both came to the
same conclusion that they are selling thousands of these things with the demand
increasing so It's prolly gonna be around for some time.

I would also venture to say that with the power this board will have, if production
of the 9x stopped someone would grab the ball and run with it. Even at this point I
could see someone making a new case with all top quality hardware for this board
and open source FW.

I am chomping at the bit to try this baby out!

[cre8tiveleo]

Even if all the variations of the 9x radio dissapeared, ersky board is here, just slap it into a case, gimbals, switches tx module and you're golden. Even with the gruvin board, the only use the radio we bought is the case and user input.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=44.056206,-79.476191

[Crashj007]

From the point of view of the manufacturing engineer, even if they stop making the radio, the case and part molds would still exist. I know a guy who gets picture frames made in China for WalMart. Someone like that, or his Chinese agent, could find the molder and get cases cheap. You just need to buy a container full (1200 cases?)

[GTPilot]

Sorry if the question is already answered guys... I'm new here. I love the idea of this radio and it's mods. Kinda neat to have a radio "By the Pilots... For the Pilots". I also own a Spektrum DX8 which I like a LOT, but the receivers/ telemetry are too expensive. I just got my Turnigy 9x today... After 2 months of waiting. Feels great and just holding it makes one want to customize it. With this new board coming out, will it be sold through a web store? Will any of the add ons (Haptic and audio accessories) be available for sale with it? If not in the plans, I'd have to say, if offered, I'd buy it and so would others. Heck, become a FrSky distributor! Make yourself some money by making an all in one 9x upgrade shop to go along with this forum full of info. Maybe the online store already exists, but Ive yet to find it. Ive done some homework and bought the FrSky DIY and Some receivers and such. It took a lot of searching to "Put it all together". Take care. I look forward to seeing the new board offered.

[SkyNorth]

Hi , welcome to the group.
I will have boards to sell when we get enough Flight time on the Beta units that have been built.
I have about 100 boards ready to be built. ( about 10 are sold)

I could provide the Board with a pre-wired speaker , Haptic buzzer, and Bluetooth module.
It would have to sell around $140.

Once I start the Production run , I will start taking orders.

-Brent

[cre8tiveleo]

$140 is still $100 less than the Gruvin 4.1 board when it's all said and done.

[GTPilot]

Brent...

Bluetooth module? Will it include a free downloadable app for my droid?

[SkyNorth]

Thats the plan , you could have a custom user interface for the radio on your droid....or link to goggle maps....flight logging?
Of course somebody needs to write it ......