Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Development & General Chat for the superb openxvario project.

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jhsa
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by jhsa »

kaos wrote: I know this project is limited to vario,
No, this project is not limited to vario ;)

http://code.google.com/p/openxvario/sou ... 253Dclosed

actually the name changed to "oXs" openXsensor.

I'm using Vario/altitude, voltage sensor and current sensor.. maybe soon to support RPM with an hall effect switch?? ;)
Not sure it already supports the RPM sensor for electric motors..

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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by kaos »

Thx for the reply. But it is a 'tad' more expensive than the one from Aliexpress after shipping charge included. ;)

The remaining question is whether I can use that 10DOF sensor (from eBay) for this project with room to 'upgrade'. ;)

Jhsa: Thx for the info, i saw the current sensor section, but where is the voltage sensor? any one has done with 100A sensor?
also, the current sensor /voltage sensor are supported by er9x/ersky9x yet? (don't recall read about that)
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by MikeB »

If you are using the SPort output then only the Alt and Vario are supported at present, if you are using the hub output then all the sensor values are output.

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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Kilrah »

I had added current/voltage to the SPORT output, but never committed and then Mike reworked the SPORT code. I'll have to add them in again.
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by kaos »

So I can use the 10DOF sensor for Alt/volt/current for now on Sport. That is great. I will wait for the future expansion for Acc, mag then. ;)
How about the D rx? sport is for X8R right?
I think I am a little confused with what is for D and what is for XR/sport.
from what I understand the 'original' openXvario can be used with serial port without hub for D rx? adding a filter it can be used with analog port. and a current sensor can be added to it.
then the oXs project for Sport/XR, from what you are saying, it is the same as the 'original' OpenXvario as of now, but only the vario is ready for hub, while vario, current, volt are ready for S(port) bus?

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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Kilrah »

OpenXsensor originally does alt/vario/voltage/current for serial port.
It now only does alt/vario for SPORT, but will do voltage/current too whenever it gets added. You choose which protocol you want at compile time.
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by kaos »

Thx. Merry X'mas!
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by dumbthumbs »

I had a chance to finally get out and test my Altimeter. I did have some issues with it, but I have a feeling it was because I was using a single Lipo cell to power the openxvario. With the latest firmware (the openXsensor firmware r195), I was not getting an value for altitude (it always stayed at 0). I could get the pressure output on DIST. Also the vfas didn't work like it did on the previous firmware I was running (r161). For flying I went back to the r161 firmware, and everything worked, but the altitude reading was a bit slow to catch up after I launched my DLG. I am using aTelemetrEZ board in my flysky 9x reciever and running the latest openTX. I don't remember which firmware I'm running on the TelemetrEZ.

I think I got all the compile options correct for the latest firmware, but I'm not 100% sure (I disabled SPORT, but enabled debugging. I also disabled current sensor and PPM programming). I can verify that everything is working right when connected to the serial port. Is the 3.8 to 4 volts my single cell Lipo supplying not enough voltage to run the arduino board? Could this be slowing down the processor?
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by jhsa »

that is too low..

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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Kilrah »

The arduino needs to be a 5V/16MHz version, and obviously needs 5V power, either externally regulated or made from a 7-12V supply by the arduino's onboard regulator.
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by dumbthumbs »

Thanks for the confirmation, its nice to know I'm not going crazy. I'll have to either get a voltage booster, or get a regulator and make a harness to wire my 2 single cell Lipos in series.

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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by ironstone »

some problems, build the unit with a cjmcu and a pro mini 328, uploaded the code, configured my Taranis, bind with a D8R-II plus and got no readings. If i move the unit up, the green led ist flashing which gave me the feeling that it works, but tried all on the remote, got only the A1 telemetry reading. Double checked all soldering, seems to be alright.
Some ideas whats wrong ?
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Archades »

Is there a wiki of this information? Also I'd love to know currently on the latest svn of openxsensor (did openxvario rename to openxsensor?) which of the telemetry fields works. I found the config file and tried to get the pressure and temperature from the gy63/5611 but no luck on my taranis with X8R Sport.

GREAT work so far though, currently waiting for my current sensor to arrive. Is there any way to do cell voltages for 6s or more, or am I gonna have to get the sport frsky sensor for that. Also might be a silly question but is there an SPORT in pin? If I wanted to say use an official FRSKY sensor and the openxsensor how would I connect it? (Couldn't find any documentation on it)

Thanks again for this project, I am learning what I can and just built my first one tonight a few minutes ago and the vario and sink/rise tones work fine.
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Archades »

Forgot to ask, can the fieldnames on opentx be changed since I am guessing this sensor is using the predefined fields FRSKY set and doesn't match up (eg the send pressure as T2 field).
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Kilrah »

The SPORT version currently only supports alt and vertical speed, the defines only relate to the legacy serial protocol at this point.
Field names are fixed.

If you want to connect more SPORT sensors, as FrSky sensors all have 2 connectors you'd just put the oXs at the end.
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Archades »

Ah ok, thanks. Any idea when the rest of the telemetry options will be added for sport? And will there be an option to edit fieldnames in the future?
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Kilrah »

No idea. First need to fix the SPORT output for good, it's still wonky as of now. Only then can we think about adding more values and integrating it a bit better with the existing options.

Edit field names I doubt as those are not transmitted over the air. They're hardcoded in the radio firmware as per FrSky spec, and just changing them there isn't an option as you may be using fields for their designated use on some models and reused by oXs on others so any rename possibility would have to be made model dependent...
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Archades »

Ah ok. For opentx and not the FRSKY version on their site would it be possible sometime later to do the custom labelling for model specific stuff? It'd be a cool feature one day. Alternative, I think I read FRSKY allocates the id's so are the developers in contact with them trying to get some extra stuff added if this is possible? I think I saw a reference to each field having a certain resolution so new fields would be best I'd guess and hope that is an option.

A few more questions, what is the sensitivity currently for the 5611 and the taranis and sport? I see in the Taranis it shows 10cm (0.1 in telem page) but does it actually get any better than that but not listed on that screen since it appears to be limited to 0.x and not 0.xx? And what is the max logging rate the Taranis could do from this?
I also see the arduino has only a few pins to work with, is there a method to do cell voltages for 12s batteries/12 inputs? I'm a noob at electronics but I've seen shift registers added to get more outputs, not sure if there is something similar to do say 1 pin on arduino to a breakout board with 12 or so potential inputs.

Donating now to help support this awesome project. Thanks so much for it, was waiting for some cool customized hardware for flying. I'll do some testing this weekend hopefully.
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Spoogy »

Can I ask what is wrong about SPORT output? I thought that it is a standard made by FrSky.

Also I'm quite overwhelmed about all information of how to use telemetry properly with X8R and SPORT. I have three-four planes where I'm planning to use vario/altimeter, voltage measurement, ampere measurement and maybe temperature measurement.

Now, I need to gather information how to do that on different planes. One is full house glider (GF 4m wingspan) where is 12 servos installed and I need to use S.BUS also (no motor at all, one power source for servos).

Two of the planes are gas engined 2,5 meter wingspan used for towing the gliders. Other has two separate batteries for RX and ignition. Other has powerdistribution box.

One plane is glass fiber EDF jet consuming quite lot of current.

I have bought FrSky vario/altimeter sensor (two actually) and also FrSky S.BUS decoders for servos. What I have been reading is that there is lot of problems with these. Decoders doesn't work and vario doesn't measure high speeds (10-bit) and resolution is bad.

I haven't used these yet and the first thing in my mind, what I liked to ask too is, what sensor I could use with the EDF jet? I want to measure its altitude and log the vario, but plane is fast and if the variometer doesn't measure high speed then, what to do? Also want to measure voltages and current consumption, but it's drawing about 100+ amps at full throttle (from 10-cell lipo). So what kind of sensor use with this? Is the OpenXvario/sensor up to this or what (to measure the current draw and vario)?

I think I need to open separate threads for all of these questions to get the detailed information. Now all the information about all the modificaitons are all over the places and it's har d to keep track what one should do to achieve what is wanted. With Turnigy9x it was simple when all the modifications was under one site with all necessary links for the modifications.

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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Kilrah »

Archades wrote:For opentx and not the FRSKY version on their site would it be possible sometime later to do the custom labelling for model specific stuff? It'd be a cool feature one day. Alternative, I think I read FRSKY allocates the id's so are the developers in contact with them trying to get some extra stuff added if this is possible? I think I saw a reference to each field having a certain resolution so new fields would be best I'd guess and hope that is an option.
I think adding more fields would be the way to go. Renaming would be a lot of work for not much. The resolution stuff applied to the old system, it's not valid with SPORT anymore.
Archades wrote:A few more questions, what is the sensitivity currently for the 5611 and the taranis and sport? I see in the Taranis it shows 10cm (0.1 in telem page) but does it actually get any better than that but not listed on that screen since it appears to be limited to 0.x and not 0.xx? And what is the max logging rate the Taranis could do from this?
It might send down the centimeters, but they'd likely just be noise. What would you do with 1cm resolution??
Logging rate depends on how many parameters are sent down. Maybe 3-5Hz max.
Archades wrote:I also see the arduino has only a few pins to work with, is there a method to do cell voltages for 12s batteries/12 inputs?
oXs won't do cell voltages at all. Before the rewrite there was an option to measure 6 voltages that would be sent down in the cell voltage fields, but you couldn't actually measure cell voltages with it. Hardware just won't do it, precision would be unuseable. Specific hardware would need to be designed, but that's a whole different thing.
Spoogy wrote:Can I ask what is wrong about SPORT output? I thought that it is a standard made by FrSky.
There is nothing wrong with SPORT itself, but there are still problems with the way it's implemented in the oXs code. See here:
http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewtopic ... &start=150
Spoogy wrote:if the variometer doesn't measure high speed then, what to do? Also want to measure voltages and current consumption, but it's drawing about 100+ amps at full throttle (from 10-cell lipo). So what kind of sensor use with this? Is the OpenXvario/sensor up to this or what (to measure the current draw and vario)?
If you used the correct current sensor connected to oXs it should be OK, albeit with low resolution.
Spoogy wrote:With Turnigy9x it was simple when all the modifications was under one site with all necessary links for the modifications.
The Turnigy mods, firmwares and hacks and their popularity came slowly and progressively over a 4-year period, with most people arriving close to the end where most was already sorted and people had time to make guides etc.
Now everything is changing and in <6 months we have new radios, new modules, new protocols, new sensors which work completely differently and a large number of people buying the new stuff straight away as the barrier that was set by needing to do hardware mods is gone.

Things now change so fast that a new system comes before you've even finished the previous one, so people want support for the new system, but then it means you don't work on the old one anymore while some people still use it and are dissappointed... quickly becomes heavy for a couple of people doing hobby projects. Unfortunately while the number of users is dramatically increasing there hasn't been much interest from people to join the development efforts.

So basically if you want the level of documentation and support you had when you joined the 9x fun you might need to wait another year or 2.
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Archades »

@Spoogy, I ordered http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50A-100A-150 ... 1040360152 this in unidirection mode (more sensitive) and I believe the 150 or 200A version should do fine.
It might send down the centimeters, but they'd likely just be noise. What would you do with 1cm resolution??
10cm res is fine, was just curious if it was sending any higher and how much more accurate it is vs the high precision sport vario from frsky which seems to be 10cm too?
Specific hardware would need to be designed, but that's a whole different thing.
Yeah I might get the FRSKY one, I only use 3s so far but 12s may be down the track. Hopefully you can use 2 of them to work but I think a custom hardware option may be the go as well. I'll look into the hardware needed. Would a separate board work and use something like i2c over 1 pin to talk to oxs which could send it or is it better to just get another pro mini or something and make it's own sport? Or maybe 2x CD74HC4051 multiplexers setup with voltage dividers. Or better yet, one of these https://www.sparkfun.com/products/299 with the voltage dividers? Might order some of 4051 and 4067 to play with.
Unfortunately while the number of users is dramatically increasing there hasn't been much interest from people to join the development efforts.
Indeed. I will try help where I can if I can skill up enough. I much prefer messing with hardware though, the coding still escapes me a bit.
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Archades »

http://tronixstuff.com/2011/08/26/tutor ... -io-ports/ I think this would help save pins too. There's probably an SMD version too to cut down size. So would that + 12 voltage dividers work ok?
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

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Archades wrote:@Spoogy, I ordered http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/50A-100A-150 ... 1040360152 this in unidirection mode (more sensitive) and I believe the 150 or 200A version should do fine.
Thanks for Kilrah and Archades for the answers. :)

I was looking that same sensor earlier, but then I begun to find out how to build this thing (vario and current sensor itself) and I lost the track on somepoint when I was reading Kilrahs posts about somekind of calibration problems with that. I stopped there.

I'm technically cabable of doing these soldering and etc. and the amount of money, what is needed to spend is not a problem. The problem is to gather all information together to get it work. At the moment when I try to read and read and read to achieve something I lose the track, because every thread has a link to the another thread where is a link to some pages on net and then there is a link to some page in RCG and etc. And some of those tracks goes to the dead end where user announces that his method of doing that did not work as expected and changes are needed to do and that leads again to another track to follow to accomplish the task.

And because there's lots of stuff which I do not fully understand right away (for example many details of MikeB posts) then I need to stop there and study the meaning of these details to get better understanding. Also, many of the things are changing all the time and some of those are not complete yet, it's hard to decide which route to go. Should I do some of the things like others has done already or should I wait a little to get better cabable sensor for the task (for example this oXs now, because of this SPORT specification and U/I measurement with it via that port).

At the moment I have been finalizing the building at two of the mentioned planes (glider and towing plane) and now I'm at the stage of that I should begin to configure the receiver (use SBUS) with the sensors in those two. There's lot's of interested people on finnish forums who would want to do the same things and I'm planning to make documentation of how to do these things (at Finnish language), but as said... I need to find all these (working) technical details what to do and understand those by myself first.

-Spoogy
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Archades »

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/310744132135 ... 1497.l2649
That's the sensor for vario I use. I got an arduino pro mini as the documents say on http://code.google.com/p/openxvario/wik ... structions
Now the part I had to dig for was about which pin for sport, it seems to be pin 4 (says rs-232 cable on the pics there).

Get the latest version of openxsensor off the svn http://code.google.com/p/openxvario/sou ... penxsensor and you want all of those files in a folder and you want the arduino software. Get the 5v arduino pro mini and the 5v FTDI usb cable ( like this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FTDI-Basic-B ... 0995231906 )

Open the .ino file in arduino and goto the file menu > tools > board > "Arduino pro or pro mini 5v 16mhz" is what you want. Goto file > tools > serial port > select the serial port that the FTDI usb installs as (check device manager if unsure). Then once that is done, align the pins as the image in the build instructions says and you can click upload on the arduino program.

I understand what you mean about mikes posts, the programming seems like an alien language to me:P I am slowly picking up bits on the arduino language but still haven't learned about how the data is read, etc but I think it's best to ignore this and just get the sensor built which I have done so last night and got it working with altitude. The other stuff for SPORT has to wait as the bugs get ironed out.

Maybe the build instructions could have a note saying what pin the sport pin is for a bit more clarity.
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Kilrah »

Archades wrote: 10cm res is fine, was just curious if it was sending any higher and how much more accurate it is vs the high precision sport vario from frsky which seems to be 10cm too?
I doubt there is much difference in precision/resolution about altitude. The big difference is with the vertical speed, the FrSky sensor only reports multiples of 0.5m/s while oXs reports a real number with 0.01m/s resolution and much better filtering so that it actually means something (precision about 0.1m/s).
Archades wrote:http://tronixstuff.com/2011/08/26/tutor ... -io-ports/ I think this would help save pins too. There's probably an SMD version too to cut down size. So would that + 12 voltage dividers work ok?
These are digital ports, not analog ones.
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Spoogy »

Thanks for all the (collected) information Archades. I really appreciate that - thanks! :)

But here's one thing which keeps masses of people, let's say "to be afraid" of this thing (Taranis/OpenTX). As for this example, the knowledge of programming (updating) the Arduino is needed and that is a quite big step for many people. Why not to offer compiled file and simple tool to upload it to the chip? Okay, I know that there is compile options which may vary for different kind of usage and also it's not the primary task of us to do that, but....

And even that the information is now offered here, I need to learn to install Arduino environment to my PC and set it up to work and as known, things almost never goes like they should go. With PC and different applications there's always something which is different and causes differentkind of behavior of program. Like ugrading the Taranis firmware. As we know, many of the people has difficulties to connect the transmitter properly to the PC to get it updated. Cause may be in USB driver, or motherboard driver, wrong installation package, user mistake (quite often, because lack or dificulty to understand of information given) and etc, etc. Now Mike has done this new method for that, which is good thing, but same thoughts conserns all of these programming (upgrading) things.

I'm not trying to be offensive (facing against) or anykind negative here. Just saying out loud that what keeps this thing growing much more popular. I'd like this and I'm good with all how the things needs to be done, but just need the proper information. ;) I know that we are on the top of the wave here and when this wave gets to the shore then, making of this things are simpler (all needed parts and information sorted out).

Anyway, now I need to order all needed parts (making few of these right away) and learn. I think you will see me here asking more information when I come to situation where I face some problems.

Until then... thanks, once again! :)

-Spoogy
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Archades »

@Spoogy, I think you'll find the arduino setup is easy peasy. So far it's been the easiest part, I actually had more trouble figuring out how to download the SVN files lol. At the moment it's the best solution since it's still in development stage but I think this project is more for people that like to tinker at the moment, later on when the bugs are sorted out it may be more easy for newbies to try but then again for them they might have better luck buying the official frsky sensors.

@Kilrah, oops didn't realize that. Would the multiplexer idea work though either through a CD74HC4067 or i2c ADC multiplexer? I2C would be better I guess to save ports. If there is a possibility of it working I'll order the parts and try it out.

Some possible chips as follows:
http://www.linear.com/product/LTC2497
http://www.ti.com/product/ads7828 possibly 1-2 of these?
http://www.maximintegrated.com/datashee ... vp/id/3271 MAX1238
http://www.analog.com/en/analog-to-digi ... oduct.html Another possibility
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by kaos »

Kilrah wrote:
Archades wrote: 10cm res is fine, was just curious if it was sending any higher and how much more accurate it is vs the high precision sport vario from frsky which seems to be 10cm too?
I doubt there is much difference in precision/resolution about altitude. The big difference is with the vertical speed, the FrSky sensor only reports multiples of 0.5m/s while oXs reports a real number with 0.01m/s resolution and much better filtering so that it actually means something (precision about 0.1m/s).
hmm, I wonder why the Alofthobby site stated the resolution of the High Precision Senor is 0.1m.
The Frysky High Precison Sensor (FVAS-02H) can work directly to serial port or connected to a hub. Can the OXS used in either way as well? I am more focused on the regular D series telemetry. Is there a difference in this regard to OpenXvario and OXS?
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by jhsa »

The oXs is a hub ;)
OpenXvario is the same thing as the openXsensor.. it was renamed..
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Re: Introduction to the openx vario/altimeter

Post by Kilrah »

kaos wrote:hmm, I wonder why the Alofthobby site stated the resolution of the High Precision Senor is 0.1m.
Because it is?

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