ERSKYTx (was ersky9x) Questions

erskyTx runs on many radios and upgrade boards
ersky9x was a port of er9x for use on the sky9x board.
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kaos
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by kaos »

hello, stranger! Sorry about your wife. Yes, you talked about her EDS a while ago. Just wish the best for both of you.
good to know you still keep the quad. I just started getting into quad. Got a heck of time on my 1st quad, the HK mega pro with GPS board.
yeh, there are good people to get the job done. BUT, not many drink beer :mrgreen:

check this out: http://www.openrcforums.com/forum/viewt ... =44&t=2394

Take care!

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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by Rob Thomson »

Sorry to hear the bad news regarding your wife :(. Life throws many curve balls at you!
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kaos
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by kaos »

jhsa wrote: What? You guys must be joking.. :twisted: :evil:
Did you lose your mind?? These are the most selfish comments I've read on this forum till today..
The stock board should be supported only for fixing bugs?? :evil:
Leave further development of the stock board to HobbyKing?? :evil:
Why do you think that only because you guys have the skyboard the other should not be developed anymore?
What makes you so special over all the other hundreds or even thousands of people that have the modded 9x stock board??
And developed by hobbyking? If I was Erazz and Mike I would take that as an offense after all the work they had on it.
Well, I don't think it is selfish. It is economics. let's analyze the economics. All these good things we have now is a result of the stock board development. But time has passed, new things emerge.


all the improvement for stock board have been great. But it is no longer 'stock' any more with all the additional boards added. yes, you can swap the chip to a better chip. And it takes time for further improvement/testing/coding.
so let's do the math:
a Skyboard is 95 with spker
for stock board:
IP : 30
telemetry EZ: 15-20?
voice board and parts on it: 15-20?
new spker: 5
additonal eeprom: 5?
new processor: 8?

that is about 93.00 plus many many soldering , desoldering with potential accidental messup and redo. add multiple shipping cost for each item.

SKy9x board is from one source, only one shipping. no soldering time. online is 1hr. many many extra header for potential expansion, much more powerful processor.

I have a 3rd T9X I am going to do possibly all the upgrades above, but that is just for fun and learning.
for a better tx, Skyboard makes much more sense economically.
Also from development point of view. each time I see Mike is doing great job trying to squeeze out more memory to do the new code. that is time taken. All at the same time, there is a board with all the power needed just for coding.

For new user of T9X, I don't see ANY point of doing all those modular upgrade. time and money neither makes any sense to me. for existing users, sure, add those would be great. But with attrition, not many T9X stock board left soon. Especially for people opt for SP, my guess is a large percentage of that is not comfortable with fine soldering (like I was ;) ) Those people are probably not the candidates for the other upgrade either.

With a new T9X (not the 9XR) for 60 plus 95 for Sky9x, one can get a hack of Tx that beat Futaba, Spectrum 8ch and can get it up and running in 30 min to an hr, just plug and play. That is simple economics. money and time.

With Mike's (and others) capability, think how much he can squeeze out of the Sky9X board. ;) Putting these wonderful capable people's talent to develop better sensors for Frysky ... etc.. That would have more impact on what we can have.
Keep developing stock board is just to 'catch up' what SKY9X already can do and not saving money/time.

when I started using ER9X, got myself a SP (for 45 at the time). and 2 months later, the Sky board was in the drawing. I never looked back again. As I said, I will do my 3rd Tx with stock board just for the fun and learning experience. But I think most users still prefer spending more time to fly and have more functions from the program instead of doing soldering and debugging.

A new guy coming for er9x , would I recommend upgrade with sp, telemetry EZ.... absolutely not. go straight to SKY9X. Because, he would end up saving money and time and end up with a much better tx/board over all and start learning using er9x/variant and fly very quickly.
There was a time it is fantastic doing all these upgrades. but that time has passed. With Frysky tx in the loom, who knows what would be the new pet. ;)
That is just my 2 cents. It really is not selfish, it is just an objective evaluation of time and money and what you can get, both developer and user's.
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by Rob Thomson »

Yes... There is plenty room for stock system enhancement.

But not without compromise somewhere.

To me the biggest issue is always going to be epprom space. If HK has bothered to put a better CPU in... Well that would have been a real landscape changer!

Is tock board will always be supported - but I think that much like open9x, try way forward will be to split functionality to allow end people to choose what they want in the firmware. The m64 is really the major bottleneck!

Rob
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GTiDon
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by GTiDon »

[xquote="jhsa"]
Scott Page wrote:
kaos wrote:
GTiDon wrote: I think the stock 9x board has reached its full potential (when the new sound board finished). It is time to unlock the power of SKY9x board with ERSKY9x. ;)
I have to agree. Obviously what I think isn't worth a heck of alot, but if this party is going to continue forward I think the stock board should always be supported if bugs are found -- but since sky9x and Frsky Tx's are/will be using the ARM processors, more eeprom, sound support, -- it may be time to leave further development of the amtel 64 platform to Hobby King.
What? You guys must be joking.. :twisted: :evil:
Did you lose your mind?? These are the most selfish comments I've read on this forum till today..
The stock board should be supported only for fixing bugs?? :evil:
Leave further development of the stock board to HobbyKing?? :evil:
Why do you think that only because you guys have the skyboard the other should not be developed anymore?
What makes you so special over all the other hundreds or even thousands of people that have the modded 9x stock board??
And developed by hobbyking? If I was Erazz and Mike I would take that as an offense after all the work they had on it.[/xquote]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey! I somehow got mis quoted there, I didnt write that :)
First I find him in my garage.. now this.. :D
Er9X Flashed
Speaker Mod Done
Haptic Feedback Mod Done
Telemetry Mod Done with FRSky TTL Lite
Voice Mod Done with Emartee Board
HK Backlight Done
FRSky Telemetry DIY Module Installed
----All these mods removed and installed Sky 3.0 board with DJT Module.

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jhsa
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by jhsa »

You guys are just seeing your side.. There are other people that won't go to the sky board, can't you understand that?
Some people, like me, like to do the mods. As Mike said there is still room for development..
so yes, your point of view is a very selfish one, there are still hundreds or even thousands of people that are following the development on the stock board. what do you want to tell them? sorry guys, if you want more development you will have to get the skyboard?
In the past, and to be more precise, when people started talking about the audio, everybody was saying that no one needed it, that the stock board already reached it's limits, that it would never be possible, etc.. And now? many people can't live without it anymore..
This project aim was to HACK the hell out of the 9x transmitter. To change stuff, to make it better, to build parts, to connect wires. that is hacking.. I'm sorry but replacing the entire board has nothing to do with hacking and with the spirit of what was started here. Sorry, it was started on RCG because this forum didn't exist yet. ;)
So, now because a couple hundred people bought the skyboard and installed it, all the others have to do it as well?
Big no to that, at least from my part.. this project, in my opinion if far from being finished, and anyway is up to Mike to decide what he wants to do.. He is the one doing all the work (with er9x, and hardware in general). One thing is for sure, the day he steps out, will be the day this project comes to an end..
And I think we all read his opinion a few posts above.
You guys can say whatever you like, but at the end of the day it is not your decision, nor mine.. :D
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by ReSt »

+1

Reinhard
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by Rob Thomson »

Lol..

Joao, you do always get very vocal when you think the stock board will get excluded from development. Must be the Fortugese coming out :-P

Everyone had different reasons for using the firmware, different desires and ideas. No harm in discussing them, and no need to jump all over anyone who differs in opinion.

I started with hacking the stock board. These days... In use the sky9x board for my primary radios.... Then an assortment of modded stock, telemetry ez systems etc.. For general testing.

Of all the systems in have... My favourite is the sky board. It is remarkably good!

From an end user point of view, this is also probably the best bang for buck options for those who don't like soldering, hacking and pulling apart their systems. It also currently provides the developers with probably the best platform for long term firmware expansion.

That does not mean that the stock radio will stop being supported. We never though audio would be possible. It can now be done. We never thought a rotary encoder could be done. It can now be done.
So yes... Room for more. But not for everything, and not for everyone.

In think the dynamics are going to change somewhat over the next year.

9xR has been released.
X9D due in a few months
Other radios? Who knows!

From a firmware / developer point of view, the usage of the code is expanding. Lots of fun times ahead :-)



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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by jhsa »

Exactly, the usage of the code is expanding.. AND IT STILL FITS IN THE DAMN BOARD :D
You're right when you say i get very vocal.. It's one of the reasons why people today can enjoy the audio on stock board for example. I nagged, nagged and nagged ;) :D and against all odds, we have audio. BIG THANK YOU TO MIKE FOR THAT.. I think he probably got tired of all my nagging :mrgreen:
I always believed it was possible, as I still believe that some more features are possible..
As I said, is a nice project, it wasn't for everyone since the beginning, it got a bit more difficult with the telemetry, and so on..
But when you turn the radio on, and see that those mods worked, it's a good feeling.. like magic. mission acomplished.
When you buy something like the sky board, you expect it to work immeadiately. it's never the same feeling.
I will always keep my 9x's even if one day I get another radio. will probably sell the other one later and get another one.. but never the 9x's. I made them the way they are..

Oh, and by the way, you never saw me writing that we should stop the development on the skyboard because the frsky radios are coming, did you? they even bring STICKS :mrgreen:
And after all the custom firmwares, or at least one at the moment, is being ported to the frsky radio.
But that would be exactly the same as some were saying about the stock board..
Yeah, I know, I'm writing a lot of B***S**t :mrgreen:
At the end of the day, you know.... exactly!! ;)
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by Scott Page »

I stand corrected and humbled. My apology. :oops:
Last edited by Scott Page on Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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GTiDon
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by GTiDon »

JHSA Did you read what I wrote at the bottom of my last post above :?
Please recognise that
Its chaos again :lol:
Er9X Flashed
Speaker Mod Done
Haptic Feedback Mod Done
Telemetry Mod Done with FRSky TTL Lite
Voice Mod Done with Emartee Board
HK Backlight Done
FRSky Telemetry DIY Module Installed
----All these mods removed and installed Sky 3.0 board with DJT Module.
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by GTiDon »

Going back, I see its Scotts quoting mistake
Er9X Flashed
Speaker Mod Done
Haptic Feedback Mod Done
Telemetry Mod Done with FRSky TTL Lite
Voice Mod Done with Emartee Board
HK Backlight Done
FRSky Telemetry DIY Module Installed
----All these mods removed and installed Sky 3.0 board with DJT Module.
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by Scott Page »

GTiDon wrote:Going back, I see its Scotts quoting mistake
It's my bad. Big time sorry for being ignorant and offensive.
My thoughts were not conveyed in what I said, but my thoughts were considerably more benign that my post appeared. I was actually thinking that the code jockeys are being spread awfully thin with the continual growth of parameters, boards, devices, to support -- but I'm not going to defend my verbiage. :(
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by Kilrah »

jhsa wrote:When you buy something like the sky board, you expect it to work immeadiately. it's never the same feeling.
No, but you also have to realise that the very vast majority is NOT looking for that feeling, they just want something that works.
Maybe 95% of the 9x users don't do the mods because they like it, but because they have to do them to get what they want. If something comes up that works out of the box, then they'll be very happy to get it and avoid the burden. This is why the majority of new 9x users get at least the SP programmer, they don't want to take the soldering iron out. You, me up to some extent, and maybe a dozen of people here do it for fun, but it's not that many people around... how many of you have built the sound module exactly?

And then 95% of all RC fliers are not even considering the 9x as they would consider any mod too complicated. A radio is after all used by RC fliers, and for most RC flyers the radio is only a means to fly their models, they don't even want to know how it works. There was an interesting discussion running last night on the French forum, with a guy explaining that open source radios will never go mainstream because in the clubs he goes to most of the guys aren't even capable of upgrading the firmware on their Futaba radio (copy a file on the SD card, insert card, turn on, press a key), and often need help from others to program their model because they don't understand a thing.

This is maybe a bit exaggerated too, because open source can be made easy too. Of course now with the 9x that requires hardware mods, that when not done correctly will lead to more issues etc it's definitely not for everyone. But with the new batch of radios where you'll just have to plug the USB cable and flash it should be for everybody as long as the documentation is good.

But again - not everyone needs or even wants the flexibility the 9x firmwares can offer. For some people the limitations of common radios are a help because they guide them. Those who need help to adjust the elevon mix on a Futaba radio will be completely lost on the 9x's blank canvas... which is why I find it essential open9x implements a model setup wizard among the next features on ARM platforms. FrSky radios will aim more towards the mainstream market, and such a thing would provide the "simplifications" many users need.

Anyway, as a start it will be interesting to see what kind of feedback comes out of the 9XR. Up to now people who got a 9X and intended to reflash knew what they were getting into and chose to do so. Now people see the 9XR just like any other radio and just buy it like they would buy a Futaba or Spektrum, expecting something similar without really looking up front what they are actually getting and how it will work. That's gonna be the reality check.
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by GTiDon »

If my club guys saw what was in my radio I would be banned.. They barely accept it even standard. They rather fly old FM brand radios than a chinese 2.4.. ignorance - If you not rich and elite then you should not be in the hobby..
Er9X Flashed
Speaker Mod Done
Haptic Feedback Mod Done
Telemetry Mod Done with FRSky TTL Lite
Voice Mod Done with Emartee Board
HK Backlight Done
FRSky Telemetry DIY Module Installed
----All these mods removed and installed Sky 3.0 board with DJT Module.
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by Rob Thomson »

Kilrah... I agree 100%

Last night unmade a post on the 9xr forum to a similar effect.

90% of 9xr users will probably never update the firmware. Essentially HK choosing a fixed firmware and working off that is no issue. They want a known environment so they can support their clients. Yes.. It may not be the best. But it works.

The percentage that want more - they will all upgrade to our forum, and firmwares.

So in short.. Nothing changes. If anything, we simply benifit because more people will understand the basic firmware concepts and will consider converting to our current firmwares.

End of the day... It is all about balance. All platforms and ideas get considered and worked on - but long term I think the stock board is close to its maximum capability. Pity HK did not install the m128!!

Rob
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by jhsa »

Well all that doesn't mean that the development on stock board should end, and it won't end as Mike already stated many times his wish to continue to develop it.
The same as the er9x development won't end as well, even if reading some posts on this forum we know that there are some people making some pressure for that to happen. If it wasn't for er9x and the stock board there wouldn't be new boards or even other firmwares. Probably not even 9XR or X9D.
So if you have the sky board and you're happy with it, good on you. But you have no right to say that the people that don't want it or can't afford it have no right to have firmware developed for their radios. That is discrimination..
You know what, you remind me the guys that own the very expensive futabas :)
Anyway, I think we know everybody's point of view, including Mike's point of view which is of course the most important point of view because he is the developer, and the person who's doing all the hard work with software (er9x and other) and all the hard work with hardware, and we could never thank him enough. All the respect to you Mike..
So, as we know everybody's opinion, and nothing that can be said will change other people's mind, thank God, that means that stock board and er9x will continue being developed. And that's wonderful news.. :D that said, I don't need to write anymore about this subject, for now.
Watch this space.
Oh, here is a quote from Rob on the 9XR forums, and I couldn't agree more with him ;) :D

Re: This Isn't In The Manual

Unread postby rob.thomson » 03 Jan 2013, 01:43
Oh.. I no you knew... I actually packed up laughing when I saw your post. ;-)

But seriously... There is too much knocking HK going on. Long term this really will not help anyone, and only leave a sour taste.

The HK official firmware makes sense. If they are to have the ability to support it in any way, they will need to lock the system to a known platform. Yes.. It may be behind in relation to the 'proper' firmwares, but at least with a known platform - they can train up some staff to support it.

Many end users will probably never update the firmware. Bugs or not... The firmware still does most of what the average end user will want.

Where we come in is for those who want something more. That may well equate to only 20 percent of the consumers. They will probably be the more technical users, who actually understand the radio - and will in turn upgrade to get the best from it.

They will probably end up as members of openrcforums.com. Why? Because that's where the developers can be found.. And that is where all the new features get discussed and integrated.

I don't think long term much will change from the developers point of view. We will still keep hacking away, and users who want to will still upgrade.

All I ask is that HK make it clear what the options are, credit the firmware developers who have made their radio possible, and cross link to our forum. (if you look at openrcforums.com we have already created a section and link back for this forum)

Rob
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by Kilrah »

jhsa wrote:If it wasn't for er9x and the stock board there wouldn't be new boards or even other firmwares. Probably not even 9XR or X9D.
That's like saying that without Amiga computers we might not have today's PCs, so people should still code programs for 20 year-old Amigas (even though a few got back to it for fun) ;)

There's always a point where you have to, or just want to go forward. It's not there yet indeed, but there is a time where stock board development will stop. It won't mean it's dead, it will still have some perfectly useable firmware, just no more new features. I doubt 5 years from now we'll still be trying to save every byte of the m64 to include new features when there are $50 radios with color touchscreen, telemetry, voice, live video, integrated GPS with maps, you name it... that can do so many more interesting things.
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by jhsa »

In five years time? of course.. remember that the 9xr development started 6 years ago :D :P so they say
Well, as no one else helps with er9x we will leave the decision to Mike, shall we? ;)
At the moment all the features in er9x still fit inside the m64 ;) It's amazing what have been done with this radio so far, And I'm looking forward to look back in a few months and think. wow people thought that the development should stop and now we have all these new features. It happened before and it will happen again.
I'm a believer,
Amen.. :D
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by SkyNorth »

Please start a new thread , if you guys are going to ramble on ...
This is not the place for this discussion.

-Brent
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by Crucial »

I think part of the frustration that lead to the initial statement about stopping er9x development in favor of ersky is that those who have the sky board are anxious to see what can be done with the more powerful board. There is so much more potential with that board but it is being held back by hanging on to the older slower hardware.

However, this doesn't mean that the 9x users should be left hanging and ultimately like Joao said it is up to the developers where they want to go as it is their hard work that gives us what we have.

I have both boards in use so I appreciate anything that is added to either.
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by kaos »

any one of you still have a 5/1/4" drive and 3.5" inch drive with a 15" CRT monitor on your desk?
I do. I go back and turn it on once is a while just for fun. It still has a 8086 cpu and use a rs232 mouse running WIn95. :lol:

would I spend the money to upgrade that computer? NO. but it is fun to see a 54 1/4" floppy spinning around once in a while.

Like Kilrha said. there is a time we need to move on. For fun and just for doing it. it is fine.
Like I said before all these good thing is a result of the development of er9x from the stock board.
but I don't any point of keep developing the stock board while a much better board exists and cheaper than developing the stock board. at one time, there is a good financial incentive to have these upgrades (compare to the name brand) when there is no 'cheap' alternative. but with emerging sky9x board that just knocked out the last incentive to me to keep upgrading the stock board.

For fun, I still turn on my 8086 and 5 1/4" floppy drive. But I won't use it on a regular basis.
What what er9x can do for the stock board is already amazing. and plenty of functions. For further functions, the stock board just is not the best way to go on.
No one is saying stop supporting the stock board if there is a bug.
I even said 'after the latest sound' module is fisinish' I suggest if Mike can put more time on the ERSKY9x.
I have been waiting the develpement of ersky9x for a while, but I have to move on to open9x with the v3 board because the ersky9x is just not 'finished'. I have no complaint whatsoever with MIke. He is doing something no one can achieve already with everything going one. But as end user, I have to go with what is more developed.

we can keep doing what is going on. But eventually the end user may have to choose to leave the er9x/ersky9x when there is a more developed software out there. I don't want to. Just for the thankfulness to all Mike's work. I kept the ERSKY9x on my V.B board. Get another V3 board for Open9x.
The cold fact is Mike is doing a super job, but he is still only one person. He only has 24 hrs a day. I feel bad for him trying to keep the er9x going/alive, wish I could help him. But I don't have the ability to do coding.

Jhsa, no one wants to stop er9x. but if we keep staying with the stock board. When a new tx is out, there is a chance the er9x will be left behind by end user. (like the Frysky tx)

got to back to work. will come back for more. I don't think I get my point out very well here. If I offended someone, I will try to explain again.
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by jhsa »

That's called blackmail :evil: :twisted:
And as far as I understand you're already using open9x ;)

you just feel threatened by the stock board doing nearly the same than the other boards, come on confess :mrgreen:
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jhsa
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by jhsa »

MikeB wrote:The stock board still has room for enhancement. We have recently got the TelemetrEZ board that has the potential for adding extra EEPROM. Then we have the new design voice board the should add a SD card. Then there are those swapping the M64 for a M128.
Put those 3 together and there's plenty to do.

Apparantly there have been at least 2500 SmartieParts boards sold, that's many stock users, I think Brent has only done around 200 SKY boards.
So there are plenty of people with stock systems who would like better things still.

Mike.
Guys, you can say whatever you want, but as far as I'm concerned this opinion is what matters.
Thank you again Mike.

And you know what? we're going in a circle now.. so, I'm outta here..
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Rob Thomson
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by Rob Thomson »

We have had this debate far to often.

The real change will come when the firmware runs on other cheap radios. (cheapish). Things like the x9d, with mass storage, audio etc... Well. If it does not cost much more.. Which one do you buy?

All the more pity HK where foolish enough to not put in the better cpu. This would have really opened up possibilities on the low budget sets!
Maybe we should ask Flysky to release a th9x+ :-)

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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by kaos »

jhsa wrote: And as far as I understand you're already using open9x ;)
NO I have not. ;)
I loaded it once on the V.b board. then went back to ersky9x. I will be running open9x when I get my V3 board up and running. (after I transfer all the model settings from that tx's er9x fw. that involves more than just the setting, for a heli , you are looking at take the whole heli head off and relevel the head, that is why moving from one FW to another is always a big deal for me. I still have a completely stock tx (and stock FW) for 4 of my heli. I really don't want to take them apart while they are perfectly set up. Actually, flying cp heli, the stock FW will do just fine. ;) )
Reacher10
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by Reacher10 »

Gentleman...please, I implore you...let the bickering stay over at the 9XR threads.

MIke,

I have to get some servo exrentions to complete my setup but the extra hall sensor does report back the RPM's however that was just a quick test.

Do you think we will be able use the hall sensor for a valid RPM telemetry reading?

I don't really want to set up my plane if it's a dead end.

Thanks Bud

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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by sokolum »

GTiDon wrote:If my club guys saw what was in my radio I would be banned.. They barely accept it even standard. They rather fly old FM brand radios than a chinese 2.4.. ignorance - If you not rich and elite then you should not be in the hobby..
Show your club what you are doing and then leave your club, i guess. I never liked clubs because exactly the statement you made. I cant stand those old fashioned mind sets, grrrrrrr. What we are doing supposed to be fun enjoy from it.
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by Rob Thomson »

Reacher10 wrote:Gentleman...please, I implore you...let the bickering stay over at the 9XR threads.

MIke,

I have to get some servo exrentions to complete my setup but the extra hall sensor does report back the RPM's however that was just a quick test.

Do you think we will be able use the hall sensor for a valid RPM telemetry reading?

I don't really want to set up my plane if it's a dead end.

Thanks Bud

Rick
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Re: ERSKY9x Questions

Post by MikeB »

Reacher10 wrote:Do you think we will be able use the hall sensor for a valid RPM telemetry reading?
I think I have a change for ersky9x that will allow 1 to 50 blades to be selected (50 may be more than really needed).

I'll try to get it committed over the weekend. I have some other internal changes to check are OK.

Mike.
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The impossible takes a little longer!

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