Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, including 9x

Where to find parts? Refactoring your entire transmitter, new cases? Sticks etc..
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C4Vette
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette »

Yes, first one IRmodule with a heli on channel-B and then one standard TX with a heli on channel-A. The first set binds fine but the original set cannot bind until the IRmodule is switched off. It just doesn't do anything until the IRmodule is off and then only the second heli has to power-cycle to bind. Even without the original TX restarted.
Weird, seems like the IRmodule is preventing the other set to bind. This doesn't happen with two original TX's.
Later I will check if this also happens when the channels are reversed; first the IRmodule on channel-A and then see what the other set does.
No worries, it works great after correct binding with two heli's in the air. Lots of fun chasing each other.

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

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Hmm, sorry, I'm a bad beta-tester.
Found another small problem. When the IRmodule is started on channel-A the throttle does not return to zero immediate after the stick is pushed back. The motor keeps running for another two seconds. Just discovered this now because I always use channel-B because the other set my son uses has its switch on channel-A. Just now I tried this because I wanted to report you in more detail about the earlier problem. Being that if the IRmodule is started on channel-B the second set (original TX and s107) can not bind anymore. If the original set is the first set (on channel-A) there is no problem when the IRmodule is started next on channel-B. So it is just the order in which they are started.

Hope you don't mind me reporting these little flaws because it is no criticism! I'm still very happy with the project being able to use the 9X. I'm starting to think now about using some mixes :ugeek: Haha, I still have to learn about this but I notice the heli wanting to climb when turning one side so maybe I can compensate this on the throttle with a mix.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

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C4Vette wrote: Hmm, sorry, I'm a bad beta-tester. <....snip........>
Hope you don't mind me reporting these little flaws because it is no criticism! I'm still very happy with the project being able to use the 9X.
Not at all . You're a great beta tester. thanks for all your help. It's your feedback that encourages me to keep going. I'm gonna reply inline and then ask a couple questions and summarize at the end.
C4Vette wrote: Found another small problem. When the IRmodule is started on channel-A the throttle does not return to zero immediate after the stick is pushed back. The motor keeps running for another two seconds. Just discovered this now because I always use channel-B because the other set my son uses has its switch on channel-A.
lets call this issue one
Yes I have seen this but didnt know it was only on channel A. With the older code this didnt happen when the 'throttle at zero' signal was sent out several times before the IRLed was turned off. Now the IRLed is turned off as soon as the throttle goes to zero. I dont think the heli is seeing that last signal pulse and so it holds the last signal it received for approx 2 seconds before shutting down. I would of guessed channel 'B' would have been worse, since it's signals are spaced at 180ms where channel 'A' is at 120ms.

The problem with the older codes is that I was not sending those last couple of 'throttle at zero' signals at the proper spacing and it was making the other heli fall out of the sky. What needs to happen is to send out the 'throttle at zero' signal a couple times and follow the proper spacing so it doesnt interfere with the other channel. The easier way to do this is to modify one of the IRrc libarary files . I was hesitant to do that before , but am going to have to now for the S026G so it wont be an issue.

C4Vette wrote: Just now I tried this because I wanted to report you in more detail about the earlier problem. Being that if the IRmodule is started on channel-B the second set (original TX and s107) can not bind anymore. If the original set is the first set (on channel-A) there is no problem when the IRmodule is started next on channel-B. So it is just the order in which they are started.
lets call this issue two
Thanks for the updated information. I havent been able to grasp this one in my mind but havent tried any testing either . You made this statement in the previous post. 'Weird, seems like the IRmodule is preventing the other set to bind. This doesn't happen with two original TX's.' Are you sure about that ? I am thinking that if one heli was in the sky, and I turned on another heli, it would automatically bind to that channel also. Then both heli's would respond to that one controller. There is no binding on the TX side, as far as I know. The receiver just attaches to the first appropriate channel it sees. So Here's a test.
  • use 2 original syma tx. one on channel A and the other on channel b. both are turned off.
  • turn on the first heli
  • turn on one of the TX.
  • Get that heli in the sky, or at least have the throttle off zero so the IRLed is sending,
  • turn on the second heli. ( at this point I think the second heli will bind to the signal of the TX controlling the first heli )
  • turn on the second tx
  • see if the second heli binds to the second tx and if it will fly
C4Vette wrote: I'm starting to think now about using some mixes :ugeek: Haha, I still have to learn about this but I notice the heli wanting to climb when turning one side so maybe I can compensate this on the throttle
Ha . I considered this as well on the 'forward / back ' aka pitch, aka elevator. I modified a s107 by replacing the tailshaft with a piece of carbon fiber and using a tail motor from an MCPX. also removed some of the weight from both the flybars. When I go forward real fast then back it off too quickly, the heli starts to flutter. I never got around to doing it though. :)



summary
  • issue one . I can fix this. I'd like to wait until I get the s026g working, as then I will have a better idea of which way the code is going. Do you think using channel 'B'' as your main channel will work in the meanitime ? If not I will fix this first
  • issue two. I'd like to know the results of the test. I am thinking that the original tx have this same issue, although I could be mistaken. You've been correct in your reporting so far. :) Sounds like using channel 'B' helps out on this issue also, until we get it nailed down
  • question one. Do both your helis have the board S107R5. I know we talked about this early on but just wanting to verify that they both have that marking.
  • question two. How much trouble would it be to move the pins used on your arduino ? The reason I asked is that the most efficient way to use an m8 processor would require to move the output pin . I also would like to move the input pin so it wont interfere with usb communications. I have tested the output pin move but not the input pin move. I can put conditional statements in to use either pin but it isnt a one line entry. My goal is to have one program that will work on an m328/uno/mini328 m168/pro-mini and an m8/usbasp/arduino_NG . The current code uses a 2 channel configuration for the timing code for the 38khz IR strobe but the m8 only has one channel on timer2. I am going to follow up this post with a post on my limited progress on getting the s026g working
thanks
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins »

Update on progress to include Syma S026G into IRmodule.
  • been working on it :)
  • Was able to get the processing sketch linked to above by Promix working. Used that to verify the s026 protocol. Used my scope to get some timing information.
  • The S107 varies the 'off time' of the 38khz pulse to send the data. the S026G varies the 'on time' to send the data. the IRrc library can accommodate this easily
  • The S026G protocol does not match it's packets up into 8 bit bytes. This is a problem for the IRrc library. I got lucky in that the S107g protocol was closer to the IRheli model (MicroTwister / Copter V-MAX hypersonic) he originally wrote the library for. Not as lucky for the S026G. I have made an initial attempt at one approach that didnt work,havent given up on it as it is flexible, but have a backup approach in mind if needed.
  • The S026G protocol has an additional bit in the preamble. While the IRrc library wasnt setup for this, it shouldnt be a problem.
  • The stop (aka postamble) bit is inversed on the S026G. Well really I need to verify the S107 has one. I've been sending one out :oops: Anyway the library sends out a 'one' and the s026g needs a 'zero' this shouldnt be too hard either
  • Got the 38khz IR pulse working with a single channel 8 bit timer ( timer 2). the m8 MCU, which is used in the usbasp hardware, does not have a 2 channel timer2. the original IRrc library used a 2 channel timer2 configuration. This will require a change in the output pin as OC2a (output compare 2 ch A) is on a different pin than OC2B. This will probably just affect one person :), c4vette , at this time.
So I woulda loved to report that the S026G is working, but not quite yet. But it is getting closer to having working code for that heli and will work on usbasp hardware. the goal is that you can buy a usbasp from anywhere , add a fet/transistor, couple of IRleds, and fly your heli with a JR compatible TX.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette »

Wow, you are fast!

• issue one: No problem for me to use channel-B. That is working fine.
• issue two: Hope to try this week but am a bit busy with a bit larger project: 1:1 electric boat that 'has to' work next weekend because of son's holiday.

• question one: Yes, absolutely positive they both have the S107R5 board and both heli's are original genuine Sima's.
• question two: That would be terrible. Haha, just kidding :) I don't mind at all.
Last edited by C4Vette on Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

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take your time with the test I requested. I wanna get a working s026g first.

As far as changing the pins on the in/out, I'll try to only do it to ya once :)
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette »

Hi,

about the test you requested:

•use 2 original syma tx. one on channel A and the other on channel b. both are turned off.
•turn on the first heli
•turn on one of the TX.
•Get that heli in the sky, or at least have the throttle off zero so the IRLed is sending,
•turn on the second heli. ( at this point I think the second heli will bind to the signal of the TX controlling the first heli )
•turn on the second tx
•see if the second heli binds to the second tx and if it will fly


The result is exactly the same as when I use the IRmodule: both heli's respond to the first TX. BUT only when the first TX is left with a little throttle. My conclusion is, and I'm quite sure about it, is that the IRmodule is transmitting continuously.
Oh, and I tried it again making sure the trims are centered to prevent IR signals.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette »

Showing the Arduino inside the TX with the extra swich for routing the ppm-signal between the module-bay-connector and the Arduino as well as switching power between those two. On the right side of the Arduino you can see the FET with current-limiting resistor. The LED's are in the top-half of the TX.
Arduino inside.JPG
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins »

nice pic.

Ok got issue 2 fixed. You were right. Channel 'B' was transmitting all the time even when the throttle was at zero. That was causing the 'binding' problem. I updated the download . Not sure why my code wasnt working but I went at it another direction and it is working properly

I have not fixed issue one yet.

Have worked on the s026 very little since last message. With change of season got out and flew my heli and getting the convertible ready for the summer. Still been thinking about it though :) Thanks for your patience.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

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Hi, whow already a month later!
Haven't been flying much and today I had some time to try your latest fix. Well, some good and some bad news....
The good news is that the channel-B 'problem' is fixed. I can start IRmodule on B and 'bind' and start another (original) set on channel-A without a problem. Great!
But now both channels on the IRmodule have the problem only channel-A had: throttle doesn't return immediately to zero. The motors keep running for a few seconds no matter I use channel-A or B.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins »

I was afraid of that :)

I've been slacking on my projects. :( Just changed working hours this week so maybe it will get me back motivated.

the cause of the motor keeping running is that the code quits sending out pulses as soon as it goes to zero. So the heli see's whatever the last non zero value and keeps at that till it times out. I had that part fixed at one time by sending out the pulse so many times after it got to zero but the timing was wrong and it interfered with the other channel. I'll keep this in mind and fix it when I get back on track. Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette »

Now I'm in trouble :(
My son keeps asking me to come and fly with him and I never want to go back to the original TX. So my question is, do you know when you have time to look at the code (sorry: sketch)? I should have listened to you when you asked me how to connect to the Arduino now it is build in.

/* joking
I trusted this version to be even better than the one before and now I have to revert to the previous version.
*/

By now you must know that I'm very pleased with IRmodule and will happily wait fot the new release :lol:
In the mean time I'm going to have a look at rebuilding the heli with a carbon-kit.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

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well I cant let a little boy down, can I :)
I'll get something out by this weekend. My problem was I moved in 3 directions at once, made at least one mistake, got frustrated and set it down. I reviewed my previous efforts last weekend and it has been on my mind.

Yes probably the best revision is a couple back where the heli spooled down properly but the IR Led was running all the time. you would just need to remember to turn of the TX when not in use.

carbon kit for S107 ? I havent seen that
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette »

The latest revision should be v.08 although it says v.07 in the sketch. The real v.07 was the best rev so far. It still amazes me that I'm able to fly the s107 with the 9X, just great.

The carbon-kit has been out there for a while but it is relatively expensive. Well, compared to the total cost of the heli itself that is. But I couldn't resist anymore. Hey, any hobby costs money.
http://shop.carbonfibers107.com/ZR3-GT-25.htm Just one left in stock, get it while you can!
I payd even more. I was $28.00 when I ordered it just one or two days before the sale.
Due to less wait and a stronger tail-motor it should fly a lot faster (3x stock speed). It also has better body-bushings, removeable tail-boom and extended distance between the two rotor heads. The total heli will be 4.5 grams less then stock. When my donor is disected (grin) on my desk I will have a look at the possibility of a removeable battery between the skids. I'm hoping to use a connector of a landing-skid of a v911. Anything is possible but the weight itself and the weight-distribution can be a problem. Building it will be fun but time is depending on summer-plans.

Good luck with the sketch, I'm looking forward to it.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

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C4Vette wrote:The latest revision should be v.08 although it says v.07 in the sketch. The real v.07 was the best
Yes i caught that last weekend when putting things back in shape. I updated the filename but not the revision number in the sketch. Thanks for noticing.

I looked a little last night. The next revision will not be combatible the IRrc library, although the sketch is heavily borrowing pieces from it. It wont support the s026 but will have pieces in place to make that happen.

I will test as best i can to be able to use both channels at once and have a proper spool down when throttle is at zero and be sure the ir led goes off when throttle is at zero. Will that cover all the bugs ?

I have mentioned before about moving the ir led arduino pin from pin 3 to 11 (arduino pin numbers not physical pin numbers). If you recall that is because the atmega8 does not support 2 channels on timer2, and i wish the sketch to be combatible with the atmega8, and continue to have the timing pulses interrupt driven.

Will you easily be able to move the ir led output to another pin ? If not, i can make some conditional statements to support both pins in the interim .

As far as the s026, previously i had gotten the data structure down but wrongly measured the timing between packets. That work will resume after this next update.

Thanks
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

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Yes, that will cover all bugs (except any new ones, haha).
No, it is not a problem to move the output pin.

I'm happy to test the new sketch for you.
I will try to leave the usb-cable connected somehow for a while. Maybe make a small notch on the edge of the casing and roll-up the cable on the back of the TX.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins »

I have seen pictures where people did their 9x mod and ran the connector into the battery compartment. If you wanna get real fancy maybe connect a bluetooth module to your internal module. Seems I've seen that on here too.

Of course there will be bugs :) but i'm gonna try to make some new ones. These old ones are getting boring ;)
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette »

This is not my picture and not my TX but mine is identical. But this connector is for the TX and not for the Arduino. Already thought about adding a second one but then I also have to integrate the FTDI-board. Well, maybe later...
USB-ASP_Mod2.jpg
Last edited by C4Vette on Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins »

Ok. New version available for download from same place http://www.randyperkins.com/irmodule

Changelog
version .09 6/15/13
1. Moved the IR output pin to ARDUINO pin 11.
2. No longer based on the IRrc library. This is a stand alone sketch
3. Simplified IR timer configuration so it will work with atmega8 -- incomplete
4. Started on adding flexibility to support the syma S026G -- incomplete
5. worked on existing bug related to flying 2 heli's at once -- complete
6. worked on existing bug related to turning of IR led after a small delay --complete

Things to watch out for.
1. No longer using the IRrc library so anything could happen :)
2. Be sure to move your IR output to ARDUINO pin 11 ( not physical pin 11)
3. The timer for the IR encoding is simplified. I didnt see any glitches while flying but be on the lookout.
4. I changed the timing of the status LED. Trying to find the correct balance to be able to read the flashes but not delay the startup too long. I think the overall delay from powerup is about 5 seconds. Let me know what you think.
5. I REALLY think I have both the bugs fixed now :) I cant fly 2 heli's at once but simulated as best I can.
6. The download is still a .zip file but there is only one file for the sketch now. eventually may break out some of it into a header file, but that is down the line.


Happy Fathers day and thanks for the feedback and continued interest
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

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Thank you for all the work.
Cool, so in de US Fathers day is at the same time as in the Netherlands. In our neighbouring country of Belgium it is on another day....
I'm going the test today and will let you know asap.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette »

Great version!
No more channel-B problem and no more 'sticking' throttle. I flew four batteries on two different (my carbon fiber heli is ready!) chopters. Sometimes on channel A and some of the time on channel-B and mostly together with a second heli in the air. No channel-problems whatsoever.
I did have a problem though, but am not sure if it is the IRmodule or the heli. During hover it fell three times out of the sky, just like that. But all three times were on the same heli and it didn't happen the next charge.
So again my thanks and compliments: great sketch!

Edit:
Oh, and the changed timing of the status LED is just fine. Had to try it a few times to see whats happening but it is fine.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

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Thanks for the feedback.

Hows the carbon fiber heli look when complete? Hard to tell from the shop photo . Hows it fly ? Are you happy with it ?

As far as the glitch , the only thing I saw is when you first turn the TX on, it will put out 5 pulses, even if the throttle is at zero. When the one heli fell out of the sky, was the other one just being turned on ?

was there a fluorescent light around ? I changed the light bulbs in the ceiling fan in my living room to those new type ( well at least new here in the states ) fluorescent bulb that is shaped like a regular light bulb. I notice it interferes with the IR heli, especially when the light is first turned on and they are warming up.

Glad the light pattern was ok. To me the delay seems a little lengthy but when I made is shorter, sometimes it was hard to detect the pattern. It may have been the LED/current limiting resistor combination I was using for testing.

Now that you helped me get things moving again, gonna try to keep up the momentum.
and yes, yesterday was Fathers day :)
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

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rperkins wrote:the atmega8 does not support 2 channels on timer 2
I've been saying this wrong all along :oops:

What I've been calling 2 channels is actually one channel with 2 output compare registers .

timer2 on the atmega328 is a single channel with 2 output compare registers.
timer2 on the atmega8 is a single channel with 1 output compare registers.

The IRrc library which was the foundation for this sketch used both output compare registers on timer2 to generate the 38khz IR pulse utilizing Phase Correct Pulse Width Modulation. I simplified this circuit to use a single output compare register since that is all the atmega8 provides on timer2. It is no longer phase correct, but we arent modifying the pulse width anyway :)

The confusion was all mine :)
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette »

rperkins wrote:Hows the carbon fiber heli look when complete? Hard to tell from the shop photo . Hows it fly ? Are you happy with it ?
I cannot make a better picture than on http://shop.carbonfibers107.com/main.sc although those heli's do look branded to me; not original Syma. Also a few nice pictures on http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... 23&page=45 It flies a lot faster. Not all good though; a right turn is not possible at full speed. The blades will clutter and the heli will instantly fall down. Left turn is a lot better, it takes a little getting used to. Before the mod the heli was 100% stable in hover but now not any more. It sometimes has TBE and is a little 'restless'. I'm not sure if it is imbalance or because it is just too light to be stable :roll: I've swapped the head two times with other stable heli's but that didn't help. Am I happy with it? Well yes, it is goodlooking and faster and the tinkering is part of the hobby just like tinkering with the 9X, Arduino's and other electronics.

About the glitch: at that moment there was no other heli (or TX) powered on. I was testing alone. I always fly in the same room where the curtains are closed and no lights. But again, I'm not sure if it was the IRmodule or something else. Probably I will fly some more this week and will let you know.

About the two channels on timer 2: does this mean we didn't have to move to pin-11? :x
Haha, no problem :lol:
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins »

no , well I think it was necessary :mrgreen:
moving to pin 11 was because of the hardware driven output compare pin

I might be explaining it wrong but this image shows our pins

arduino pin 8 = ICP ( input compare pin) used for ppm decoding
arduino pin 11 =OC2A (output 2 compare A) what we now use for IR timing encoding
arduion pin 3 = OC2B (output 2 compare B) the original pin used for IR timing encoding

this says 168 but is same as atmega328
Image


this is original arduino which I guess used atmega8, and surely is what most usbasp use today.

notice pin 11 is called OC2 . There is no 'A' or 'B' because timer2 only has a single output compare register
Image

well I hope that made it clearer. It is awful early here. Oh and the original timer circuit was something called ' phase correct pulse width modulation and the new , simpler one is called CTC ( count to top ). I had forgotten the CTC part but was reviewing last night to get the register bit manipulation variables correct for the atmega8.

Oh and the pics of the carbon fiber on the sellers main page were much better. looks good.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette »

Ok, pin-11 is fine with me (now). :)
Yesterday I flew again and now it is clear the glitching is only on one heli. This is a new one and does it also when using a original TX so there is nothing wrong with the IRmodule. Héh, this sketch is great!
/OffTopic
Somewhere I made a wrong decision: I rebuilt a perfectly good flying heli with the carbon-kit and now it is unstable. I bought a new s107g to fly with my son and that one is glitchy.... Must be a solder-contact somewhere because it happens only now-and-then and sometimes stays away for minutes.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins »

hmm..
Well i'm glad that it isnt the sketch but sorry about your luck lately.

On the unstable one, is there room to move the battery further or closer to the center of gravity ? Maybe it is a little out of balance.
On the glitchy one, It is also a s107_r5 board , right ?
I did have one once where one of the gears would slide down sometimes. I had to push up the keeper for the pin, but I doubt that is your problem.
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette »

Thanks for thinking along but it is not the gears because the motors just stop: complete silence and sometimes they spin back up before it hits the ground. So you think the battery should be close as possible to the middle? I more or less tried to place it to the front because of forward speed. Will change this tonight. Will also check the rev of the board. If it doesn't help I will resolder (reflow) all joints.
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C4Vette
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by C4Vette »

Awfully quiet here :shock:

Well, somer is definitely over so no more flying with the v911 till spring. But this brings the s107 in the picture again and I was wondering about any progress on the IR-project. Not that I need anything changed in the sketch, it is just fine for me but I know (read on your webpage) that you have more ideas to try.
Anyhow, I'm picking up flying with the s107's (three) together with my son again and winter is also a good time for me to start other (arduino) electronics projects again.
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rperkins
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Re: Continued-Infrared module for JR compatible TX, includin

Post by rperkins »

No i havent been working on this. Could get back to it though.
I still see the helis every day on my shelf, just been toying with other stuff.
Let me know if you find any more bugs

The last arduino project I did was a usb simulator dongle. I used an old dx4e that I'd robbed the rf module out of.
Someone else on here did it and i followed suit.

Thanks for checking in

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