Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

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bob195558
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Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

Post by bob195558 »

Simplify3D V5 new slicer version has been released and with a lot of troubles in it, which some troubles with new stuff is a normal thing.
Some of the troubles have been fixed, so I did purchase it with a $10 sale price of $59 (this is an upgrade price).
So it has its differences from the Simplify3D V4.1.2 which is still doing a good job for me.
Today I was 3D Printing some Eye Wash Cups and made the first one with Simplify3D V4.1.2 with no troubles.
I then used this new version Simplify3D V5 and had trouble right off with the Part Cooling Fan NOT starting up, but just making a high pitch Squealing Sound and heating up.

I troubleshooted and the Part Cooling Fan and it is good and the wiring to it is also good.
I rechecked the setting in Simplify3D V5 and re-sliced it again and it worked properly this time.
But with the next print I made some small setting changes and it did the same thing.
High Pitch Squealing Sound and not turning.
So I tried fixing it several times again, but it some times worked correctly and other times NOT.
Also when using the older Simplify3D V4.1.2 it works correctly every time.
It seems to be Not be getting the correct current sent to the Part Cooling Fan.
I will work on it more later to see if there is a setting somewhere that may be causing this trouble.

Here is some info about the differences between the older Simplify3D V4.1.2 and the new Simplify3D V5.

Note: The V4 and V5 licensing systems operate independently, so you can continue using V4 even after you upgrade to V5.
The upgrade does not make any changes to your prior V4 licenses – it just gives you access to all the new V5 features on top of what you already have. Simplify3D V5 stores all files and settings separately from V4, so you can continue using both versions at the same time without any issues.
Each license can only be used on a single computer at a time.
Each software version is only officially supported for up to 1 year after its original release date.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).

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Kilrah
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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

Post by Kilrah »

It's quite unlikely the slicer would have much to do with it, all it does is tell the printer to "turn the fan on at X% speed", then it's controlled by the printer. Unless there was a bug where it changed the fan settings multiple times per second... would probably have to look at the actual G-code for both to see if there's something weird.
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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

Post by bob195558 »

Cooling Fan Settings
Cooling Fan Settings
S3D V5 part cooling fan settings_c.jpg (61.96 KiB) Viewed 7995 times
Some more info about this trouble from yesterday.
There is some new Cooling Fan Settings with V5.
There is the ability to have multiple Cooling Fans, up to 6 which are labeled "T0" to "T5".
Though I believe, most 3D printers control boards do not have the ability to control Part-Cooling-Fans individually.
So my leaning is that there maybe a bug that is creating, when the Gcode is being generated some of times.
As this trouble seems to only appear sometimes when the Gcodes are being generated.
I made a part Gcode (with V5) with 3 different Part-Cooling-Fan Layers:
Layer 1 with 0 Fan Speed % = with the results of 0 Fan Speed (no power to fan).
Layer 2 with 100 Fan Speed % = with the results of 0 Fan Speed with High Pitch Squealing Sound (behavior like to low % power to fan).
Layer 10 with 100 Fan Speed % = with the results of 100 % Fan Speed (worked properly, the fan powered up to 100%).


S3D V5 Cooling Fan Settings_d.jpg
S3D V5 Cooling Fan Settings_d.jpg (49.78 KiB) Viewed 7994 times
I also tried the “Blip fan to power when increasing from idle” that seems to have had no positive results.
I have never used the Fan Overrides too.
I will check more into this.
S3D V5 Cooling Fan Settings_e.jpg
S3D V5 Cooling Fan Settings_e.jpg (84.93 KiB) Viewed 7993 times
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

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I started one of the EyeWashCup V5 Gcode’s which the Part-Cooling-Fan fails to start turning and has the High Pitch Squealing Sound.
So when it began on Layer 2 for the Part-Cooling-Fan to start up, it again fails.
I paused the print and checked the voltage on both the Hotend Fan connection and the Part-Cooling-Fan connection,
which they both showed 13.47 volts.
I then swapped both fan connection and both fan started up properly.
I then moved the Part-Cooling-Fan back to its proper connection and it again fails to start up,
but when I move it to the Hotend connection it does starts right up with no troubles.

So my thinking is, there is only two wires going to these 12 volt DC fans and to be able to change the fan speeds,
the voltage will need to be lowered to slow the fan down.
But both connections are supplying 13.47 volts.

So I am not understanding at this point, ........ why I am seeing this behavior ???
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

Post by bob195558 »

Update
I have two new TH3D 5015 High Speed Blower Fan V2 (12V) – with Dual Ball Bearing and I just tried them and very interesting results.
https://www.th3dstudio.com/product/5015-high-speed-12v/
So again I ran the same EyeWashCup V5 Gcode which again the Part-Cooling-Fan fails to start turning and has a High Pitch Squealing Sound.
I then tried both new fans and they both are running, but at a very low speed and both are making the High Pitch Squealing Sound at the same time.
I then changed them to the Hotend connection and both stated up properly (full speed) with no High Pitch Squealing Sounds.
I then rechecked both Hotend and Cooling Fan’s connections and they both still have the same voltage output 13.47v.

At this point I do not have enough info to understand what is causing the trouble.
So what do you think may be causing the trouble ?
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).

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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

Post by bob195558 »

Here is the (zip) Gcode file generated with the new Simplify-3D V5 slicer that has this trouble if any one would like to look at it.
This trouble seems to be connected to this new Simplify-3D V5 slicer, but not every job that I have used slicing with it has had this trouble.
I have not seen this trouble to happen with the older Simplify-3D v4.1.2 slicer.

New Simplify-3D V5 with trouble and has P0 at the end of the M106 command:
S3Dv5 EyeWashCup V5_2_10_c Gcode.zip
S3Dv5 troubled Gcode with P0
(701.35 KiB) Downloaded 111 times
Last edited by bob195558 on Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
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Kilrah
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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

Post by Kilrah »

The fan control commands (M106) include a fan index (P0). The firmware on the printer probably doesn't support that.

S3D's pretty well designed so I'd expect there's something e.g. in machine settings to exclude the index.
Haven't upgraded to V5 myself, moved over to PrusaSlicer on a server so I could have my settings available regardless of what computer I was on.

As mentioned a "working" gcode from V4 would be useful for comparison, likely it simply doesn't include the index.
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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

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Hi Kilrah, Your help has been very helpful.
I am not sure that you may known yet about V5 and V4, when you upgrade to V5 it is a completely new design separate from V4,
so you still have all of V4 and V5 they are separate so you have uses of both.
I believe they do share some of the storage file on the PC together.
I tried to import Simplify-3D V5 files into V4.1.2 and it does not work.
I had to import the STL file into V4.1.2 and make new factory and Gcode files.
V5 may have picked up some of my V4 setting, but I am not sure on that because they may have been V5 default settings.
I lean toward a new start with V5 anyways.

Here is a (zip) Gcode file generated with the old Simplify-3D V4.1.2 slicer
and I did not see the fan index (P0) with the fan control commands (M106).

EyeWashCup V4_2_10_cc.zip
S3Dv4 good Gcode without P0
(546.48 KiB) Downloaded 115 times
Last edited by bob195558 on Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

Post by Kilrah »

Yep, so probably need to find where in V5 to disable the multi-fan support.
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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

Post by bob195558 »

Hi Kilrah and everyone,
For a test, if I removed the P0 from the Gcode so to see if the trouble is still there.

So continuing with troubleshooting this Part-Cooling-Fan trouble.
I see (with no load) a voltage that has been the same between the Part-Cooling-Fan and the Hot-End-Fan of 14.47v,
I was thinking the power going to the fans is good,
but having two other new Part-Cooling-Fan which also behaved the same way with failures.
I then looked at the Gcodes between Simpliy-3D V5 and V4.1.2
and seeing V5 has an added P0 in the Part-Cooling-Fan Gcode command “M106 S255 P0” at Layer 2
may have been the trouble.
And removed the P0's in the Gcode, but the results were still the same, the Fans still failed :( .

So next I was thinking maybe I have a mostly broken wire, which maybe would be show me that I have the needed voltage,
but a bottle-neck for the amperage, which was to low to smoke the wire, but cause the fan to fail.
So I ran a test new wire between the EZBoard2 and the Part-Cooling-Fan.
The first test run when it came to Layer 2 / M106 S255 the Part-Cooling-Fan worked properly :D ,
but repeating this test with the fan failed :( .
I then used EZPi (Octoprint) “>_“ to insert Gcode command M106 S255 and the fan worked properly :D ,
but when I inserted the Gcode command M106 S254 it failed :( .
So some times inserting Gcode command M106 S255 the fan works properly and sometimes the fan fails.
I then tried several Gcode commands M106 Sxxx and measured the voltage with a fan load and without a fan load.
I also recorded some of these with the other two new TH3D 5015 High Speed Blower Fan V2 (12V).
When there is a failure all three Part-Cooling-Fans failed and when there is no failure all three fans work properly.
Most of the times when I used Gcode command M106 S255 the fans worked properly,
but not always sometimes they failed.

A) Gcode command M106 S255 (Fan Worked properly most of the time)
Voltage Under Load: 13.37v
Voltage No Load: 13.49v

B) Gcode command M106 S254 (Fan Failed) :(
Voltage Under Load: 13.30v
Voltage No Load: 13.49v

C) Gcode command M106 S240 (Fan Failed) :(
Voltage Under Load: 12.61v
Voltage No Load: 13.49v

D) Gcode command M106 S179 (Fan Failed) :(
Voltage Under Load: 11.39v
Voltage No Load: 13.32v

I still do not know where the trouble is. :?
I am now leaning away from one and/or both Slicers Simplify-3D V5 and V4.1.2 being the trouble.
I have some leaning that the trouble may be with this EZBoard 2, but I am not sure.
So this is what I have troubleshoot with this Part-Cooling-Fan trouble failure today. :(
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

Post by bob195558 »

Good news :D , Bad news :( ...... It Is What It Is 8-)
Have found the source for the failure of the Part-Cooling-Fan not rotating
and with a High-Pitch-Squealing-Sound at the same time.

Review of the trouble:
The process of troubleshooting for this Part-Cooling-Fan trouble was to first looking at what I have changed last.
So the most recent change was using the new Simplify-3D V5 slicer which has had a lot bugs and changes,
which several users have not been happy with.
Looking at the differences between the Gcodes in Simplify-3D V5 and Simplify-3D V4.2.2 and focusing on Part-Cooling-Fan
commands like “M106 S255”, which normally begins running at Layer 2 in the Gcode.
M106 is for the Part-Cooling-Fan and the S0 to S255 is the speed % of the fan
and P0 to P5 is for selecting which fan is being commanded.
The Fan speed is change by the 3D-Printer’s control-board by changing the voltage to the Part-Cooling-Fan.
And so, Simplify-3D V5 has added P0 to the end of “M106 S255 P0” command, which the thinking was maybe this is the cause of the trouble.
I removed the P0 to test if this would correct this trouble and it did not.
I also checked the voltage output for the Part-Cooling-Fan and it indicated it was good.
I then looked at maybe the wires in the cable were almost broken and made a test wire to bypass the cable wires and the trouble was still there.
When changing the Fan-Speed percentages and checking the voltage
with no load (no fan connected) the voltage always gave a high voltage reading.
But when I put a Y-connector on the Part-Cooling-Fan test wire so to have the fan
and meter connected at the same time, then I could see the true voltage change for the fan speed percentage.

So at this point of my troubleshooting I am not finding the source of this trouble.
I began to think that maybe the new EZBoard 2 could be where I need to look next.
I still have the older EZBoard-Lite v1.2, so this morning I swapped the control boards
and with my old EZBoard-Lite v1.2 this Trouble with the Part-Cooling-Fan is no more. :D

So I will be updating TH3D and believe Tim will want to see this control board to check it out for what may have failed on it.
This board may also be able to be repaired too.
TH3D products are made very well and failures are very, very rare.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

Post by bob195558 »

Hi everyone,
Update on this Part-Cooling-Fan not working correctly.
Tim at TH3D has within the TH3D firmware a “FAN_FIX“ feature.
This “FAN_FIX“ feature (#define FAN_FIX) is basically turning on and off the MOSFET at a high speed,
so using PWM regulation for fan control.
The Part-Cooling-Fan power circuit has noise in it which is causing the trouble
and by shifting the PWM frequency to a lower speed, it lessen the noise enough
for the fan to work properly.
There is no bug in the Simplify-3D V5 causing this particular trouble.
So by adding this #define FAN_FIX feature to the TH3D EZFirmware configuration, the Part-Cooling-Fan now is works properly.

If you would like, see here for info about flashing EZFirmware to the EZBoard-V2:
viewtopic.php?f=129&t=14052
Last edited by bob195558 on Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

Post by bob195558 »

Here are some youtube info about PMW.

Pulse Width Modulation (PWM): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQLED3gmONg

How to control a MOSFET with Arduino PWM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV1cb6CvQXc

How PWM works | Controlling a DC motor with a homemade circuit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nwNKPs2gco

What is Pulse Width Modulation? How to generate PWM signal ? Pulse Width Modulation Explained: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XjqS1clY_E
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).
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Re: Simplify3D V5: Does it still need fixing ?

Post by bob195558 »

Update on Simplify3D V5,
there is a new updated version released this morning for downloading: Simplify3D V5.0.2
Anyone who has Simplify3D V5 are welcome to post here with what you find with this new updated version. :D
Er9x on 9x radio, with Smartieparts Programmer and TelemetrEZ Board.
ErSky9x on Taranis, Sky9x, 9Xtreme radios.
3D-Printing: (https://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=129).

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