HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

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HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

Okay I have a very important question that staring at the schematics for the 9XR-Pro here isn't clearly answering. I can't find a schematic for the rotary encoder hookup. I can see the hookup diagram for the board, and the ecu pin out side of it in the full on schematics. But it leaves this question unanswered.

1) Does the mainboard need to see the rotary encoder button signal as grounded?

My encoder is a SparkFun RGB. Its pushbutton is fed by the 5v that feeds the LEDs. So I believe when I push it, it will send 5v out as its signal. This would put 5v onto ecu pin PB6-I/O. This pin is labeled with PB6/TMS/SWDIO at the U1 processor. (Not sure what any of that means, or if it tells the answer to this.)

For the 9X, jhsa shows putting a 3.9k resistor on the button line. It is fed by 5v, and grounds the button back into the ecu. But looking at the 9XR-Pro stuff, to the best I can tell it is seeing ground and not voltage on that pin...

I can't find a single pictorial schematic of how this is supposed to be hooked up. I don't know if it is safe to feed 5v into a processor pin...

Also from what I understand, Mike took care of the debounce and filtering in the software side of it. Is this the case, or do I need a filtering setup on this guy? If so, I am going to order the SparkFun breakout board. It allows for easy and clean soldering in of some caps.

Googling "PB6/TMS/SWDIO" and it seems that this might be a bidirectional pin. I am not real knowledgeable on these things, but it seems like it might be safe to see either a ground or a voltage signal? I just don't want to take a chance...

EDIT: Okay with further study I "think" that it doesn't care if it sees high or low input. Again not an expert, or even a beginner but somewhere BEFORE beginner on this, LOL! But from what I can tell, it cares about a 3.3v max input. I tried to read through and decipher the Arm data sheet, but I couldn't figure this detail out. Since this is VERY LIKELY what popped the old board, not wanting to take a chance here. So let me ask some specific questions:

1) (again, from above) Does the mainboard need to see the rotary encoder button signal as grounded? Or can it see a high/low input?
2) Is 5v high safe?
3) If 5v isn't safe, do I just put a 3.9k resistor in the button line, or should I use a 10k and 20k voltage divider setup?
4) If either dropping method can be used (if needed), which is better/safer?

The divider would add a little complexity, but not enough to really cause a major problem, if it is the better option. If needed and it doesn't matter, the inline 3.9k resistor is a bit easier.

That should cover me nicely. I am going to wire up what I think I know, and go from there and leave put 3 on the mainboard J16 disconnected for the moment. I will edit this if I see anything that might help, once I wire up what I can.

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by MikeB »

The I/O pins are 3.3V only, 5V is NOT safe.
The firmware provides an internal pull up resistor on PB6 and expects the signal to switch to ground when you press the encoder switch.
The same applies to the other two signals from the encoder (internal pull ups and switching to ground.
The firmware does provide filtering on the the PB6 switch input.

I've had a quick look at the documents for that encoder.
Unless you really need the LEDs on the switch to illuminate, I think you can just connect the pin 5 of the encoder to ground and use pin 3 as the encoder switch input (it is just a switch).

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

Thank you Mike!!!

Yeah I do want the RGB working... But that won’t happen now, with this particular one lol. So the cheap chinesium bluetooth RGB module claimed a 3-30 v in and a 5v out. NOPE! It is a 3-30v out. So I let the smoke out. Oops. If I had used a WORKING bench meter, or even looked closer at the board I would have realized that.

Oh well. The RGB module connects, but I didn’t get it working right with another RGB strip anyways. I will keep working on that, separately. Once it is sorted, I can just use a relay to turn that 5v to a switched ground. Isolation from chinesium is good anyways.

The encoder part still works. Poorly though... I will have te try the cap debounce filter.

And I got to tear into my “new” vintage bench top meter to see if I can recalibrate it. It is almost useless right now. Shorting the probes takes a slow drop to 55ohms. Sometimes. Sometimes it goes to 49 and actually beeps.
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by MikeB »

You say the encoder works, but poorly. Is this with it connected to the board and running erskyTx and giving poor operation?

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by jhsa »

The cheap encoder I installed on my 9XR-PRO didn't work very well until I did this:
circuit-schematic-v2.jpg
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

MikeB wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:00 pm You say the encoder works, but poorly. Is this with it connected to the board and running erskyTx and giving poor operation?

Mike
Yes, maybe(?), yes.

Encoder hooked up. Fully now with button working too thank you!

Running ersky9x-r222 (REVB-X). Not sure if this is the one you modified?

It usually goes too fast and skips two lines. Sometimes 3. The encoder has detents, and I have to try really hard to go like half steps to move just one line.

jhsa I will try that next. Lets make sure I have the right software in there first haha!
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by MikeB »

OK, encoders may have different mechanical arrangements as to how many "steps" they output for each detent.
In the "Hardware" menu there is a setting to count 1, 2 or 4 steps for each detent, you probably need to set this to 4.
Enable access to the hardware menu by powering on with the left horizontal trim held to the left. Alternatively, use eepskye to read the EEPROM, modify the setting, then write the EEPROM contents back.

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

Okay PERFECT thank you Mike!!! That did the trick! It is now easy to navigate just with the encoder. Getting closer!
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

[expletive] I stumbled across a problem. I am not sure if I have a setting somewhere wrong, or if the software just can't do this. I can navigate all around the setup menus with the encoder. The encoder button does menu and exit. All works great there.

But I can't figure out an encoder method, or at least a cross button-less way to navigate and swap between the main screens. While I almost never use any screen but the first one, if I am looking at telemetry info, or trying to figure out a logic button setup, then I need to access those other "home" screens.

I mean for 90% or more of the setups out there, pointless. But once an encoder is in play I would assume most do so to eliminate those navigation buttons. And I did the encoder to eliminate needing those navigation buttons since this is being case modded. :mrgreen:

PS: I have found I can get in trouble if I select a couple wrong items in the radio setup. Where then I HAVE to use the primary navigation buttons. I am okay with that and plan to leave them on the mainboard. If I did something dumb like that, accessible, but not easily. But while relocating the switches is possible. that is a lot of soldering I wanted to avoid on the MB.

A solution that could work if the encoder won't, would be a combo like pull the trainer switch, and use a joystick.
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by MikeB »

I've just posted a test version for the 'PRO that will allows the encoder to navigate the main screens. The reason it couldn't before is the encoder was made available as an extra control, when a main screen was displaying it could be used to adjust a global variable.
To use this, go to the RADIO|GENERAL menu and tick the (new) option "ENC main screen". The encoder should then allow navigating the main screens, but not allow adjusting a global.

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

It seems to work great! Thank you Mike!

I am not sure what global variable is/are though... ? Since this is still in the 9XR-Pro case for now, I went in with the main menu buttons and didn't find anything I could adjust with the encoder except on the telemetry page. I went in and set encoder for main screens and went back to the telemetry page, no issues accessing that menu drop down.

So this does everything that I think I need. But what are these global variables and can they be accesses somewhere other than the main pages? Do I even NEED to change them in normal usage?
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by jhsa »

Mike, you could still use it to adjust a global variable, if you use it combined with a key to change screens..

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EDIT: Hmmm, wait, I forgot that some of use do remove the navigational keys. :(
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by MikeB »

BiggsDarklighter wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:35 am. . . But what are these global variables and can they be accesses somewhere other than the main pages? Do I even NEED to change them in normal usage?
No you don't need them in normal usage, and they may be accessed elsewhere.

With the change to the main screen navigation using the encoder only, note that the "bars" screen and the "channel values" screen both have 2 pages, 1 for channels 1-8 and the second for channels 9-16. At the moment, without any navigation buttons, you cannot see the 9-16 ones. Also the "switches" screen has several pages but only the first is visible.
I had to do something special to allow all the telemetry screens to show as pressing the encoder button "SHORT" on them brings up the telemetry popup menu. I will look to allow a short press of the encoder button on those other screens to allow the encoder to select the missing pages.

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

Lol yeah my Futaba doesn’t have navigation buttons. Would prefer to keep it that way haha! But the encoder setup now allows me to do 100% of what I thought I might need.

I thought it looked like a few less pages. But I can now access anything I really need to. More is better always, but it allows for probably 99% of the navigation I will ever have to do!

Let me know if you make further changes Mike and I will try them out too thank you!!!!
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

Oh hey related but slightly off topic. I couldn’t get my radio talking to my Mac. So I just went the easy sad card route. Done bam thanks.

But... I need to get a “Futaba FP-erskytx” splash screen installed to validate the project. Can I mod the rom then install to add card? I do have a pc too if need be...
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by MikeB »

To change the splash screen there is an option in the help menu of eepskye that may be used "Customise Splash Screen".
Just load the required image, then save to binary, it prompts for the binary file to update.
The image needs to be 128 by 64, black and white.

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

Okay got it! Ignore the weird missing line, the LCD is damaged on the replacement and apparently I fried the original one too... Oops. Next question!

Do I need the navi buttons for flashing/selecting rom even with the TX connected to the laptop???

So, I like to tinker. I may change the logo a few more times before I think it is perfect. This is something like flash 6 or 7 and over 20 images before I got it to this happy point. Getting to this point has made me realize a problem with the Futaba case mod. Without the trim buttons, and the 6 navi buttons, I not only couldn't have gotten here, but I can't do future updates.

At least not using the SD card method... Can I get around this with the transmitter hooked up directly to the computer? I was not able to get that connection to work, but I can utilize my Toughbook (pc) instead of my MacBook and get it working eventually.

The trim buttons are the easier problem to fix. I can install them in the Futaba case if needed, or even setup a little plug in controller pad. If I have to retain the navi buttons for flashing or selecting rom even with a connection to the laptop... I will have to either put the MB back into the 9XR-P case, or maybe install the MB flipped over in the Futaba case so I can access them with the back off. That would mean either extending the gimbal plugs (easy enough to do when I make them) or if there is a software method to change them.

8DB95D9D-8376-4DDC-A98B-D8605817B2A2.jpeg
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by MikeB »

With Atmel based boards, you should find that plugging the USB in with the radio power off, then powering up, starts in bootloader mode.

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

Cool! When I do that though can I select the rom file from the laptop, or do I still need those navi buttons on the TX? I had to use the left side arrows for selecting, then the menu button or exit buttons to burn or cancel. Does hooking it up to laptop force through whatever rom is selected in eepsky?

I can eventually answer this simply by getting it connected to my laptop and trying it out... Just haven't been able to get that working yet.
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by MikeB »

Reading/Writing both the flash memory and the EEPROM are included in eepskye. The only time you should need a trim button is to enable the hardware menu (hold left horizontal trim to the left at power on.
Maintenance mode is available from an option in the RADIO|GENERAL menu (otherwise that needs both horizontal trims held apart at power on).
The encoder should work in the bootloader, it does on my SKY board that uses the same processor and similar firmware.

BTW, plug in the USB, power on, then unplug the USB should leave you in the bootloader as though you powered on holding the two horizontal trims inwards.

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

I have bootloader 1.1 (if that makes any difference) and the encoder doesn't work in it. I just took a look through the ErskyT homepage and links and do not see anything for updating the boot loader or about it.

Also with USB plugged in it goes into a different "USB" mode. A look around the menus and I don't see any check box to disable USB or anything that looks relevant (could be there somewhere still).

Is getting the encoder working in boot loader mode a firmware/rom fix? Or is the boot loader separate (I would imagine it is...)? The physical bodge to deal with it on my side is pretty simple, to access the navi buttons with the back off by flipping the MB mounting. Relocating the navi buttons off board, isn't worth all the extra wiring soldered to the MB...

Trims are slightly harder in some ways, and easier in others. If I change the gimbals out (the plan is to do so) I loose the mounting points for the slider/pot trims anyways. I have to go through just as much effort to mount the stock pot trims, and to utilize the 9XR-P trims. I would prefer to have pots there, but the easy to implement limit is 3-4 anyways. The radio already has two additional pots setup in an orientation that makes sense how I would use it normally. Whatever the case, there are a handful of ways to deal with the button vs pot trims. I already have 3d printed trim button levers that fit in the trim slots. Every plan of attack here is going to require about the same amount of fabrication, unless I keep the stock gimbals...

I haven't decided if this will be a surface/sailboat use only radio, or if I will use it for my planes too. I don't fly nearly as much, so another radio for the planes is harder to justify. For those, I probably need to retain the button trims anyways. And I defiantly want the hall gimbals in that radio.

Anyways, these two problems are likely best dealt with by me on the mechanical side of it. Have the navi buttons available if needed, and install the button trims.
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by MikeB »

Bootloader 1.1 is very old! The bootloader is included in the erskyTx.bin file. To update the bootloader you need to copy the erskyTx.bin file to the "FIRMWARE" directory of the SD card, then use "Maintenance mode" to update the bootloader. Normally maintenance mode is accessed by powering on with the two horizontal trims held apart, but there is an option in the RADIO|GENERAL menu to run maintenance mode.

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by CatRovacer »

And old 9XR Pro has bootloader?
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by jhsa »

As far as I know, all 9XR-PRO radios have a bootloader :) Even my pre-production radio ;)

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

I wrote up a nice response, and must not have hit the submit button.... I am upgraded to 3.0 now, and the encoder works perfectly in it!

Maintenance mode from inside the radio menu doesn't work without the menu navi button, the encoder for whatever reason doesn't do it. A short press on the encoder button either does nothing, or drops back to the prior menu. A long press, like you do with the menu button, locks it up hard. But I think this is a non-issue. The more I poke at this, the simple answer is to just incorporate the trim buttons into my build. While not useful for my sailing, they are almost indispensable for any maintenance type functions, and if I ever use the radio for flying I would need them there too.
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by mentero »

If you want to make something small just for the trims, you can use something similar to this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5PCS-10-10-7-9 ... SwyQtVid8k

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by MikeB »

What revision of erskyTx are you using?
I've just checked with the latest (r223-A4), and the encoder works fine in the maintenance mode (on a 9XR-PRO), I used it to update the bootloader.

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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

The latest and greatest! Whatever test version you put out there for me the other day lol. The one you made so the encoder would navigate through most of the home screens. Okay it is ersky9x-A4r223 09.10.2020 REVB-X.

Clarification, where the encoder doesn't work is radio powered up. radio setup/general/maintenance mode. It won't let me select the maintenance with a button press on encoder. I have to use a long press on the menu button. Once in the maintenance menu, either via bootloader, or the radio setup, the encoder works fine.

And at this point, again, it is a non-issue. I am probably the only nutcase out there trying to case mod a hard to find radio into another hard to find vintage radio, without using trims. The simple solution for all of it, is to use trims. I am SUPER happy that the encoder does 98% of everything I could need and I can get away without having the navi buttons accessible.

A code change I would recommend though, would be when encoder is selected, especially if use for main screen is selected, for menu only edit to be inaccessible or greyed out. Cause you get screwed if you select that with the enc online. LOL of course I had to try and see what it meant....
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by BiggsDarklighter »

Okay edited above with version info!
mentero wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:22 am If you want to make something small just for the trims, you can use something similar to this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5PCS-10-10-7-9 ... SwyQtVid8k

Miguel
Now that, is VERY interesting!!! That will work really nicely on my next project, if I decide to do something with the 9X. :ugeek:

For this though, I already have a couple of good solutions on hand. I have lever/buttons printed out to fit in the Futaba slider spots. The 9XR-Pro squishy buttons and switch boards can be used with standoffs and epoxy it all together. The squishy buttons won't allow a lot of pressure to be transferred and pop the boards off. But I also think the levers could be pushed in too far and pop out inside... Or I have nice tactile switches I can easily solder to the switch boards. These would keep the levers in place, but also transfer any jolts to the switches and the epoxy might not hold. But I could drill two holes through the case, and bolt each switch board in place. This second option would be a little more work, but would have a better tactile feel.
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Re: HELP PLEASE! Possible encoder issue, don't want to fry the new board...

Post by ReSt »

When I modded one of my old radios, (viewtopic.php?f=61&t=7180)
that also had independent trim pots, I finally decided to add digital trim switches at the left and right side of the housing and with help of Mike, modified the code to use the analog trim pots as additional sliders

Reinhard
The trim switches on the right (and left) side of the housing
The trim switches on the right (and left) side of the housing
The small board with 4 tactile switches
The small board with 4 tactile switches

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